142: Dr. Joe Dispenza: How to REWIRE Your Mind for Abundance & Health

We discovered that when we tell the story of our past, it actually reaffirms the emotion that keeps the person stuck there. My job then is to help people to get past that point. When you master your emotions, the body's no longer enslaved emotionally to the same experience. And that's when you see these dramatic changes in people's health and our biology. I've had people on the stage that have healed from really serious health conditions, genetic disorders that medical science didn't have a solution for. There's no therapy, there's no pharmaceutical, there's no drug that has that kind of efficacy. Blending science and spirituality to inspire personal transformation. Joe Dispenza. Joe Dispenza. Joe Dispenza. Prominent figure in the field of mind-body medicine. This concept of abundance. I love the way you handle the subject. I want to shed light on your perspective. We've been programmed into abundance being monetary or material or financial. That's one slice of the abundant person's mindset. Study people that are abundant and you'll learn that they failed many times. If I keep thinking differently, if I keep acting differently, if I keep feeling differently, if I'm embodying the qualities of an abundant person, my life should change. And that's what you prove to yourself. When you get that, the side effect of that is the first thing you want to do. If you're an overachieving, under-receiving woman, you may already know that the sleep, energy, weight, skin, hair, and digestive struggles you're chronically trying to hack are somehow related to the bitterness, overwhelm, resentment, and exhaustion you struggle with in your work, mothering, and relationship. I couldn't be more thrilled to announce that after 15 years in the clinical and digital trenches as a holistic psychiatrist and coach, I have packaged the Heroine's Journey home to ease soft power and the capacity to handle more of the challenges life brings and to hold more of the abundance. It's called the Relaxed Woman System, and it includes my history-making 44-day nervous system reset. It's the only one available with published proof of its efficacy, as well as the path to truly embodying your femininity so that you can experience the specific pleasure of who you are, as well as access to the insider resources for living the relaxed woman lifestyle that I'm known for curating. It's a six-month tailored journey all for less than $2,000 and it's designed to be the very last self-improvement program you ever invest in. Head over to kellybroganmd.com forward slash RWS. Hi and welcome back to Reclamation Radio. I am Dr. Kelly Brogan and today I have Dr. Joe Dispenza back on. And this time we unpack, I give a little soliloquy about my experience at his event. I was gifted a ticket and I went and boy, do I have things to say about it. We also talk about his latest offering after many, many, many requests over the years, which is on the subject of abundance. We talk about what the personality of scarcity is versus the personality of abundance. what is required to make the shift, what money is, what abundance actually means. And I'm not sure there is a better ambassador for this than the one and only Dr. Jo. So enjoy. Welcome back for our second conversation. I am so, so excited to chat with you and to specifically unpack my experience at Marco Island. So welcome back, Joe. Thank you, Kelly. I'm happy to be with you. I think I'm the only one who calls you Joe. I know I'm supposed to call you Dr. Joe, but... No, no. Joe is really, really great. I'll take that. It's stuck. I just need to treat you like a normal civilian. Please. So I was in a place when we did our first interview where I had assumed that because I did Kundalini yoga teacher training like a decade ago, and I have a strong meditation practice that I like, I know what you do is important, but like, I don't really need it. Right. So like, it's like for other people. And I was gifted a ticket and I'm not sure I would have prioritized going for a whole week, leaving my cats and my kids and all the thing had that not been the case. I had such an extraordinary experience. I describe myself as a healthy person who doesn't have like a specific problem to work on, right? And I would describe it as life-changing, like what went on in that week. So I want to unpack it before we get into a subject that I know everybody wants to hear about from you and you know everybody wants to hear about from you, which is abundance. And I want to talk about my experience and you just feel free to jump in. Sure, sure. I'd love to hear. Okay. So there are like three tiers that I wanted to share about. One was my personal experience. And another is my experience of you as a creator, teacher, you know, founder, space holder. And the last is actually of your creations, like the business, because I'm an entrepreneur and I have always like this hat on that experiences the operational dimensions of a business and the impact and influence of a business and the organizational aspects. So I wanted to sort of share in those three dimensions, I guess. Okay, so firstly, my direct experience was framed by like a worldview that shifted for me. And this is really, this is probably the first time I've tried to articulate it. But my work is, and my journey has put at the apex, like at the pinnacle, this concept that the meaning of your struggles, in fact, I've like penned a phrase that says suffering ends where meaning begins. The meaning of your struggles is the whole point of your existence, right? And so how do you get at the meaning? Well, you look at the root causes, whether that's of your physical problems, your biological imbalances, you look at the root causes psychospiritually, you look emotionally, you go back and you dig into the compost heap of your childhood traumas and you do family constellation work and parts work and you get more and more clarity. and that's when you integrate and that's when the shift happens. Okay. So this, this sort of like toil, I don't know, this, this, this, I would say like fetishizing of the work of it was what I brought in terms of my worldview to this and what I experienced. So I'm like a testimonial, absolute junkie. I mean, I, if there's like a more pleasurable experience in the world than me watching somebody talk about their shift, I'm not sure what it is because anyway, and you deliver. So the testimonials that were shared, I mean, I was just like weeping in a puddle in my seat, just experiencing what people have. And you obviously on your website have dozens and dozens and dozens of these, you know, that somebody can enjoy on a Saturday night. And there's a kind of humility that I experienced just recognizing how if somebody comes to one of your in-person retreats, they can walk in sick and leave healthy. And why not? Why not make it that easy? You know? Yeah. Well, first of all, there's nothing wrong with that approach. The seven day event is a really immersive experience. Like you come and you got to go all in. And the whole reason, number one, why we started doing all the scientific research was because we witnessed real transformation that took place in one week. And I have to say that for the most part, I was more surprised than anybody when I saw really serious health conditions. Even some of them are genetic conditions that we don't even have solutions for, but from a medical standpoint, go into complete remission. And when you see that once, okay, that's an incident. You see it twice, okay, it's a coincidence. When it just keeps happening, I think we have over 1,000 testimonials now where people have just these dramatic changes. So we immersed ourselves in discovering, is it true that people change at the end of seven days? And the answer for the most part is absolutely yes. And it's not just a small percentage. Our data says that it's like 80% of the population, 84% of the population, 90%, 95%, 100%, depending on what we're measuring. So the immersive experience really is to reframe your understanding of what change and transformation is and taking people past that point where they normally stop because that's when the brain changes the most. That's when they change the most. So they have to get past, I can't, it's too hard, I'll never change, it's my mother's fault, I had this trauma. They had to get past their blaming and complaining and making excuses and feeling sorry for themselves and then primarily the emotions that keep them in the past, right? So you can only talk around this, right? It's like trying to explain what a mango tastes like. You have to eat it. So the immersive experience is a lot of content, a lot of information. And the information is to reframe your understanding. And then once you start understanding and start creating a new mind, then the application or the personalization or the demonstration or the initiation of the act to prove to yourself that it is the truth is where it gets really exciting. So I give people numerous opportunities to overcome themselves and numerous opportunities to connect. And sooner or later, they do. And when we study the language of transformation, we have language specialists that have spent an enormous amount of time looking at the language that people use. They're always, for the majority of people, they start off curious, right? And then there's a challenge, which is, I think, nobody changes unless they're challenged, right? So I provide a challenge for them to overcome themselves. And some people see it as a challenge. Some people see it, you know, as a struggle, but whatever it is, if they overcome that, then they have this immense connection either to the work, to their, to themselves, to their heart, to the field, whatever it is. And then transformation ensues afterwards. And so it is a process and it is a reframing and it's, it's really healthy to see that, that the story that we discovered that when we tell the story of our past, it actually reaffirms the circuitry in the brain. And it kind of also reaffirms the emotion that keeps the person stuck there, right? So my job then is to help people to get past that point. It's the emotion I think that matters the most because the memory without the emotional charge is wisdom. So when you master your emotions, you master your creations. When you break free from that, the body's no longer enslaved emotionally to the same experience. And that's when you see these dramatic changes in people's health and our biology. Our study of that says the brain changes, the heart changes, the face changes, the voice changes, the language changes, the microbiome changes, the blood changes, the genes change, breast milk changes, tears change, breath changes. Everything changes when you change. And the conditions that are seemingly required for that change include the framework. So that's why you deliver so much information, scientifically backed information. But it's also the dissolution. It's what I would summarize as a pattern disrupt, right? So it's the dissolution of the routinized way that we relate to time and space. So we are in a ballroom, let's say, for a week. And we're not given a specific schedule. So a type A like me doesn't know exactly what's happening when and how long it's going to be. And all of that executive functioning is mercifully put offline. And I will tell you, so I was with my two girlfriends, and I will tell you that within 24 hours, we were hysterically laughing because we had already lost the thread. And I want to talk more about how you hold space, how I experienced you as myself, a space holder, you know, holding space. But there was no, never any, the integrity with which this space was held. There was never any manipulation of that, right? So not even interpersonally, right? So in a lot of these kinds of retreat spaces, there's an effort to help people feel their hearts, feel love, feel connection. And so there's a lot of like small group work and sharing and like eye gazing and whatever. There wasn't any of that that I experienced. Okay. And yet the love, the kindness, the compassion that started to, and the lightness that started to move through the entire space by, I would say like the second or third day was so natural a phenomenon. It was so unforced and unarchitected that I imagine it had a lot to do with the way that you know to very simply create the conditions for this pattern disrupt, this dissolution of a typical relationship to time and space. Yeah. And, you know, that's very well described. My job is to keep people inspired to keep going forward, right? So knowledge is a great way for people to really understand that maybe they're not perceiving the world the way it really is. So you build a model of understanding. And the important point is, as you learn, you got to share it, right? So we do a lot of teach back because if you can't explain it, it's not wired in your brain. When it comes to the application, you may doubt, right? Or you'd be uncertain, right? So when you understand what you're doing and why you're doing it, the how has meaning, right? And when you assign meaning to the act, the frontal lobe switches on, you want a greater outcome. So nobody's excluded, right? Everybody is included in that process. Everybody's overcoming themselves. They're overcoming their thoughts. They're overcoming their emotions. They're overcoming their habits. Everybody's kind of in the crucible. Then there's a loosening that starts taking place. Usually, it's around the second day. Sometimes, it's the third day. People start getting it. They start understanding it. They start getting more conditioned. There's literally a deconstruction and reconstruction that goes on right down to the cell. The cell is deconstructing and reconstructing at the same time that's what our data shows. So once you start that reconstruction process, there's dramatic changes in biology that take place and you do feel looser and lighter and freer. And we get 1,500 or 2,000 people doing that. There's a collective network that all of a sudden starts to emerge. And when people behave the same way, in fact, any organism that behaves the same way, there's an emergent consciousness that takes place. and it's literally reflected in gene expression. You know, that's what we discovered. Like at the end of seven days, 80% of the people, even though they have their own genotype and these make proteins, at the end of just seven days, everybody's expressing the same genes and making the same proteins. The flock, the herd, the tribe is evolving biologically together and we discover that people change people. So there's a lot of dynamics that go on at an event. But yeah, there are long days. There's a lot of content. There's a lot of doing. And my job is to keep people inspired in the whole process. And this is where I encounter, so I want to talk a little bit about you and put you on the hot seat. This is where I encountered the paradox of how much this etheric realm, it's like a domain that you've created, how much it has to do with you and how much it has nothing to do with you. And I don't think I've ever experienced in all of the spaces I've been in, teachers I've worked with, the paradox at this level, right? You personally were on the mic the whole time for every single day Okay I don have a lot of experience in the event space I only held one I had 10 other women on the stage presenting I was sitting down I was enjoying the experience myself. I mean, it's extraordinary how, especially as like a very impatient person, you know, who likes to know the container I'm dealing with. That was extraordinary. And I imagine has to do with the fact that you are commanding the transmission the entire time. I don't know that there is anybody who does events who takes the level of responsibility and custodial, the custodial offering, right? Like the, you are saying, I'm, you're here for an experience. I'm going to make sure that that experience is delivered and I'm going to do so by, you know, actually performing. I mean, it's not quite the right word, but that's, I mean, you're like a DJ. you're teaching and lecturing. You are hilarious. The comedy, I swear, the comedy that came out of that week, we were rolling in the aisles. You're such a funny storyteller. And the vitality that you obviously have and the energy that this practice, this offering gives you, it's extraordinary to behold. And I just don't know that it's really matched because most of us who have the opportunity to teach and offer live experiences really kind of show up for the VIP spotlight moment. And then we talk back and let somebody else hold the space. And I just found that extraordinary. So that's you. And it's very specifically you. It's your gifts, your talents, the way that you move your energy, the way that you have embodied all of this information and wisdom, your belief, your passion, when there is this larger than life person on stage for whatever it is, 40, 50, 60 hours, I don't even know the math. Usually there would be a guru effect where then you imagine that that person holds the keys to your healing, but somehow it's not about you. And that's also why so many people can translate your work. I mean, I joined, we'll talk maybe a bit about the coherence healings, I joined a group and it is about you, but it's like for sure not. You don't have to be there and we're doing the work and it's like about the field, I suppose. Sure. And I never want it to be about me. I want it to be about you. Like I want, I want it to be about you. And I don't think there's anybody that's so special to be excluded, right? So the stories of transformation that I witnessed, I mean, we had one on the stage, I just got back from Orlando a few days ago. The stories of transformation are what inspire me. Like it's not about me. I mean, these people, they're my heroes, right? They're on the stage telling their stories of change. And that's the four-minute mile. And they're telling the truth. They're speaking the truth to a group of people. And everybody's leaning in because they know it's the truth. And they're identifying with that person independent of their age, their diet, what they look like, how young they are. None of that matters, right? So to me, that being a part of change and transformation and being able to facilitate that, it really what inspires me the most is I say to the scientists all the time, I can't believe this is the truth. Like, I can't believe it's the truth in number one. And number two, you can't call it pseudoscience anymore because we've proven hundreds and hundreds of times there is a connection between the mind and the body. Then then what about your life? Like, if you change, does your life change? And the answer is absolutely. So so I love having it be about the person. I want it. I want I want to challenge people to be their own heroes. Right. I want them to come up against themselves instead of quitting, breaking through. And there's an empathy, I think, that is innate in us when we share another's transformation. Like when I see somebody change and transform, it's worth more than all the money in the world, all the gold in the world. To me, seeing that change or transformation is why I'm here. Like how far down the rabbit hole could we go? Are we programmed into believing that we're limited? And we start seeing people doing really, really amazing things that would probably scare the audience when it comes to healing. you know, growing tissues and organs back that I would never in my lifetime ever expect. And what does that mean? Because we're programmed into something else that we're, that, you know, that's not possible. But if it is possible, it means that the human body has the innate capacity to regenerate itself at any age, given the right information. So for me, I see the science, I see the stories of transformation, I see the evidence. And then the next question is, if this is true and this is true, can I take a community of people and see if this is true? And can I stretch them to the next experience? And I haven't lost faith in human beings as a consequence of it. So the empathy is like pro-social networks switch on. We tend to bond. We tend to move closer together. We're more appreciative of the moment, more appreciative of each other. And we discover that people change people. So my job is to get out of the way and keep a person informed and keep them inspired. So if you have a parent or an aging loved one who is struggling with balance, joint stiffness, or simply getting around, you may have wondered what you can possibly do to support them. And I believe that I have found the solution for our parents if you are in my generation. So Juvent's micro impact platform is one of the most effective and science backed ways to improve mobility because it delivers precise, low magnitude vibrations through the soles of the feet that improve circulation and help maintain stability. There's no sweating. There's no strain. You literally just stand on it for 10 minutes a day. I speak to the Juvent CEO, Rush Simonson, in episode 114, and I learned that his own mother, who was in her 90s, went from bedbound to fully mobile with this simple daily routine. So if you want to be sure that somebody that you love stays healthy and independent, go to Juvent.com forward slash Kelly Brogan and use the code Kelly300 for $300 off at checkout. you can bring this incredible science-backed tool into their lives. And I think it's one of the most thoughtful and powerful investments that you can make in their well-being. So again, it's Juvent.com forward slash Kelly Brogan, and the code is Kelly300. The three-dimensional ways that you do that so that this passion, which I share, you know, that this passion translates into offerings, into service, the three-dimensional operation that you run, the business that you run. And it's many, I had no idea. I mean, you, over the course of the week, shared, you know, different service-related projects and different, you know, what I guess would be called like B2B, like you to train nurse, right? So clinicians, practitioners, and then the B2C arm, of course, which was me sitting in the seat. What you have going on and your level of chill, it's like, how do those, I mean, if that is not a testament to the power of this work, I was floored to take in the impact and influence that this work is having just quietly, right? Because, of course, I mean, everybody, you're a household name. However, the extent to which you have inspired service in those who are touched by this work. I mean, I befriended one of your volunteers, Juliet, and I'm just even learning about her experience as a volunteer, like the dedication, the devotion, the inspiration, the bidirectional, you know, fulfillment that happens was really amazing. And so I'd love to just hear a little bit about how the business, right, because there is a business that you run, and this will be a segue into the topic of three-dimensional wealth and its sort of five-dimensional origins. But how that translated into this like juggernaut of service and the coherence groups and healings and the way that so many are, including myself, feel lit up about paying it forward. I mean, that to me is such a testament to your humility and your selflessness in this, you know, pedagogical realm and experiential realm and your books and your teachings and your programs. It's so much bigger, you know, what you have tapped into. And it goes beyond even just the scientific validation of what you're doing. Right. So that's really what I came to appreciate. It's like you're in prisons, you're in schools, you know, there are how many coherence groups? I mean, going on every single day, offering healings to people in need. Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you. But I never planned on doing any of this, to be really honest, really honest. But, you know, my whole theory in the very beginning when I started this journey was I'm only going to go where I'm invited. If no one invites me, I'm going to do something else. Right. But there was this constant invitation. And my my desire is always to evolve my experience. I just want to get better at understanding things and I want to get better at doing things. So I think we've run 63 week-long retreats now. I've spent over a year of my life in a ballroom for week-long events. And I think it's down to two things. It's love and logistics. That's how we run events. That's just it. I mean, it's either a love problem or a logistics problem. And I am nothing without my team. My team is amazing. And yes, they're very well trained. and they have to be mission driven. And it's so important to have a vision that's bigger than us. And if you talk to the majority of people that work for me, their mission is to be a part of change and transformation because witnessing that is such good news compared to the world that's changing in so many ways that there's good news involved in that. And it's kind of this small micro culture of individuals who want the same thing. So we have a strong community. And what I've learned over the years is community is my greatest value. It's my greatest asset, right? And I want to nurture that, right? So what happens is when people change and they break through, your heart opens up and then what is the next thing, right? What is the next thing? How can I make a difference? Or people manifest health or wealth or relationships or mystical or whatever, and they're so lit up from their transformation and change that they want to be part of it, right? So I run my companies really simply on three things, right? Mission is just something that's ongoing, to transform individuals or have an impact, help people change their lives in some way. And if we change enough people, maybe we can make a difference in changing some aspect of the world. So that's my mission. My team shares the same mission. It's a selfless mission. It's bigger than us. and in some way I feel like we're doing our part with that. But what keeps us on that mission or keeps us on purpose really for me is just two things. And it's competence, which is mastering whatever you do, whatever your position is as a player. Just be really badass good at what you do. It's know that you know that you've mastered whatever it is so I can count on you, which is the third thing, accountability. And that is like showing up. And if you're going to if you say you're going to do something, you do it. If you're asked to do something, you do it. You own it. Right. And I think when you put those three things together, you have excellence in an individual. But more importantly, with my team, we have trust. Right. Because I would never try to get in anybody's way that's running who's an expert or whatever they're doing. They know more than me. But what is the safety is that if someone is no longer accountable or they lose their competence or they're no longer good at what they do or they lose their mission, they're outstanding. They stand out in the culture because someone has to stop what they're doing and do their job. So there's just kind of this autopoiesis that takes place. So I look for people that are very, very driven in that way and willing to learn. So we've learned a ton of stuff in running events. And I always want to learn from my mistakes. I want to learn from how things change. And if you can't learn, you can't adapt, right? So we've made great progress with that. And then people who really want to make a difference, they've created nonprofits. And those nonprofits have nothing to do with me. They just want to raise money to bring it to prisons, to bring it to veterans and Navy SEALs and Green Berets. We have 15 Green Berets at our last event last week to indigenous tribes. Like this is just their mission, right? It's their it's what they want to do. And, you know, again, it keeps growing. I don't know if I really want to do that when it's presented to me like, oh, my God, we're going to do that. But if it's truly my mission, then I want to be able to figure out people who can work with people who actually can lead in that way. Right. And again, it's got to be selfless. This can't be about them. It's got to be about, you know, what you know, how they contribute. So a lot of things have sprouted. We have physicians now and healthcare providers that want to learn a new language to be able to interact with their patients in their clinics. And that was another outgrowth. And then we have, I think, 17 coherence healing groups. I think we heal over 35,000 people a year. Maybe it's a little more than that now. And yeah, we have double-blind placebo studies that show that nine out of ten people with PTSD that get a remote coherence healing no longer have PTSD. I mean, you have to take a moment and wrap your mind around that because there's no therapy, there's no pharmaceutical, there's no drug that has that kind of efficacy. So when you see nine out of 10 people responding and they're laying in their house somewhere in St. Paul, Minnesota, and there's 70 people spread around the globe and they just have a picture. And in the quantum, everything's connected. If they could get to that field, could they begin to influence that person's field? And the answer is yes. And they got really good at hitting a target. Right. So so we're just we're doing we have we're going to continue those studies. But I always say to the scientists, what does that mean? What does that mean? If somebody is healed, you know, twenty five hundred miles away from you, it means that we're all connected. Right. And so if that's the truth, then we have to we have to we have to continuously push the envelope to see how well we are at executing that. So all these different things came out of what we do. Yeah, it takes a lot to do it. You know, my life is about this work. I mean, the surf is up right now. I mean, there's so many things happening. I just want to be a part of it. I want to be a part of it with people. And I have a very roundtable style with my team in the way that we interact and the creative process. And we've learned a lot over the years. And again, my team is just amazing. They know how to do it. Yeah, I think it's also, again, because you have a rare sort of blend of the accountability. You reference what I would call like a spine, right? Like a strong masculine dominion over the expectations, the execution, the delivery on the promise. You hold a strong container clearly for your business and its meta organization. And then you also are very easy going, it seems, you know, like you just sort of see what comes and see what comes, washes up on the shore. And you also are, you know, the front facing content delivery person Okay You you also the innovator and researcher And then I know that you are beloved by the people who are in your space It also rare because it's very common that somebody is really good at teaching and in the performance role, and then they're, you know, a malignant asshole behind closed doors and or their business is like a dumpster fire, right? So there's something that you've tapped into. And I think it could be succinctly summarized as abundance in this, and I want to hear your definition of it, but in this general sense of the word. And maybe that's why so many folks have requested over the years that you address this topic. And I came home from my retreat and your team had just released this course. And of course, I snapped it up and, you know, digested it over the week. It was the perfect experience for me to segue into my back into my life with. And I want to I want to shed light on your perspective around this. It's such, you know, a new age trope farm, this concept of abundance. I mean, it's like everybody's got the manifestation hack or whatever. And I just love the way you handle the subject. So that's why, literally why I'm having you on. However, I want to start with your hesitation, right? Because you didn't really want, you know, you often have this little like, I don't know, I'm kind of, you know, we're already doing a lot of things. Do I need to really talk about that? But there was maybe specific hesitation around this subject. Yeah. Right? And what was that? Well, look, I mean, there's a thing that happens with people when you talk about money or abundance, right? It's like talking about religion or politics. You know, for me, I've always just stayed away from it. It's easier for me to not address it because it's personal, right? And everybody has their own beliefs, their own stigmas, their own conditioning around what abundance is to them. And it's a lot to unpack. You know, it's a lot to deprogram to get a person to really understand it. And I wanted to be able to, in some way, create some type of model that I could work on two levels. Because I do, like, I live in 3D and I, you know, I do a lot of things. And I don't sit on my couch and everything comes to me. That's an illusion that people really, really fall prey to. You got to keep one foot in the real world and one foot in the quantum world. And you got to be able to straddle both. And you got to be able to work from both of those levels. Like if people actually get have more resources or find abundance for themselves and you can touch people in that way, then then step up and do it. You know, so so that's what I thought. I thought, OK, listen, I I have, you know, made my own journey. I don't proclaim to be like, you know, Mr. Abundance, but I have a lot. I have a lot of resources and I have a lot of freedom. And my definition of abundance when I was younger was like to be able to do whatever I want, whenever I want. right? And as many times as I want, right? And it's changed for me because now my definition of abundance really is having way more than I need. And I owe so much more than I need that I have no lack. Like I have an abundance of wine, right? I don't have a problem giving it away because I have tons of it. So I think there's qualities and characteristics of a person who is abundant that I think we have to address and to embody and to learn. And then we have qualities and characteristics that keep us in scarcity or keep us in lack. And those are subconscious programs that have to be brought to light. We got to, you know, you got to bring them up because if your personality creates your personal reality, then, okay, if I'm the personality of lack and I want to become the personality of abundance, the bottom line is whether you like it or not, is you're going to have to change. You're going to have to change. You're going to have to change the way you think. You're going to have to really make different choices. You're going to have to stop doing certain things, you know, stop sitting on the couch or whatever. Stop sabotaging your life. Stop having the same experiences with the same people and feeling the same emotions. There's this unlearning process that has to happen. And if you inspire people to relearn, you know, and understand the neuroscience and biology of change and transformation, then, you know, you have to really look at the qualities and characteristics of who you want to become. So that's the, that's a great way for us to kind of get real, right? You got to get real and then combine like what the highest form of motivation is with the lowest form of motivation, teach people like what their definition of abundance is because for me, it's not just money. That's not it. For me, an abundance of time, an abundance of love, an abundance of friendships, an abundance of synchronicities, an abundance of opportunities. I think really for me, probably my greatest joy is the abundance of opportunities. You don't need money for opportunities. You can create opportunities, right? And that etheric thing that happens, the synchronicities, the opportunities is a consequence of who you are, Right. And then there's abundance of virtue. Right. And then you can have abundance of material things. But there's several ways for us to experience abundance. And for me, it's all those things. So I wanted to broaden people's understandings of what abundance could be for them. OK, so you're going to have to change. That's the first thing. And then the next thing is, OK, if I'm stepping towards my abundance and I have my goals and I have my mission, I have my own definition of abundance. okay now I'm equipped right and so I got to get in the plane of demonstration this is 3d reality is you got to do things to create an experience you got to you got to you got to hold yourself accountable and you got to make different choices and do certain things and then let's talk about creating from the field instead of from creating matter to matter if I can teach people how to do this to create from the field and and start changing information in the field can I begin to by definition, start having experiences come to me instead of me having to go and do them. And those are the, that's the flow when things are working for you. And I want to provide two ways for people to get there, right? To be able to fundamentally do it in the process of change, because there's a lot of defaults that can happen where a person all of a sudden gives up on themselves or something goes wrong and then they're like, I failed. No, no, no, no. Study people that are abundant and you'll learn that they failed many times. It's just they were persistent. They were determined. They were unwavering. They learned from their mistakes. They got clear again. They adapted and they went forward. Right. And that's real. Like that is a real thing. They just didn't run into their abundance. There was a process of change and challenge. And then in that kind of 5D realm of creating from the field, if we do it enough times over and over again, we change our energy, then the experiment is okay. If I'm stepping towards my abundance, then the opportunities are going to come in a way that I least expect. Not the things that I think should happen. All of a sudden, like, oh, I met this thing or I got this thing or that happened or this came to me. And then all of a sudden it opens a door for a person. And why is that important? Because that inspires them to want to keep doing it. Like, oh my God, if I'm investing in myself in this way. And as I'm investing in myself, I'm seeing these outcomes take place in my life. That's the feedback. Like, why would I stop doing it? It's not like, oh, I have to go create my abundance today. And it's not like that. It's like, oh my God, I don't want the magic to end. I want to keep going. Like, this is exciting. And God, you know, and then putting it all together, being able to do both, you know, the 3D and the 5D and get really real with people and and help them understand it. So we've gotten great stories already of people that have created abundance and they just stayed with it. Right. And, and, and there's so many ways to do it. And I want people to be empowered by that process because all the people that we've, we've studied really in our community that by the way, they were, some of them were in jail. I mean, I'm just being honest. Some of them didn't have $2 to rub together. They told me they were bankrupt. You know, they were running from, you know, the IRS, whatever. They had a lot of things going on. And yeah, now they're, you know, now they're, they're in a whole different place. You know, when you get that, the side effect of that is the first thing you want to do is you want to give like an abundant person naturally gives, right? They say, why would I hold on to something if I know how to create it? Right. So there's this kind of release that takes place because they know that they know. And I don't think there's an end to it, but I think there's a lot of detours that people could make when they reach a certain level of affluence where they have to keep their ego in check. And I do think that people who really, really want to study it and go the full distance, I think the wealth is just one small part of something way bigger. And for me, it's an abundance of life. I mean, an abundance of life, an abundance of energy, an abundance of life, an abundance of opportunities. Those are the things to me that bring, I think, bring people the greatest joy. So we've been programmed into like abundance being monetary or material or financial. That's one slice of the abundant person's mindset. You might have a sense that supporting your energetic and subtle body is important, but how exactly does one do that? Like short of scheduling regular sessions with an energy healer, how do you do that? Most of the time I find that when we take supplements, it's from the energy of fixing ourselves. And honestly, it's really no different than taking a medication at that point. That's why I love flower remedies and specifically my girl Katie Hess's elixirs from Lotus Way. The formulations that she creates are so nuanced that sometimes it feels like I wrote the descriptions myself. The last one I took was designed to dissolve go-go-go mentality as well as fatigue, weakness, apathy, and resistance to self-care. Relatable? Okay. I have a monthly membership called Flower Revolution where I get a new and super powerful on point remedy sent to me every month. And it blows my mind how resonant each one is with exactly where I am in my process. I think of this as a truly feminine investment that harmonizes my process and allows me to walk, talk and interact with grace. You can try it for a month or six at the link below. And if you just want to dip a toe in to learn more about how flowers heal, you can take their quiz. And experience, right? Because my sense in your definition, which I share of abundance, is that it's a shift into a reality that is fundamentally generous, right? That this reality offers you opportunities and gifts and support. And there's a sense, you know, some people would call this God. there's a sense that you are accompanied by a benevolent energy, always, at all times, right? So that has all sorts of ramifications for your nervous system and your endocrine system and then your behavior, right? If you believe that you are sort of like swimming in this realm that spontaneously offers to you everything that you need and more, because I do think that that overflowing is a signature aspect of what we're describing, then your behavior certainly changes. So I wonder if in the patterns of personality traits, let's say, that you have observed are most associated with scarcity, if people are having financial, specifically financial struggles versus romantic struggles as they identify, everybody's got like a hotspot, right? versus health. Like, do you think that there's the personality? Because I would say yes. There's a personality of somebody who identifies as sick. There's a personality as somebody who identifies as unlovable or alone. There's a personality of somebody who identifies as broke, you know, and constantly struggling with money. But then if I really get down to the descriptors, I'm like, they're kind of all the same. Yeah, that's exactly the truth. So, so I think that when the pain of our discomfort outweighs our fear of the unknown, I think it's when people really just go, I got it. I got to change. Right. So what is the catalyst? You know, if you look at, if we back up, really back up and get really big, it's the soul, right? The soul's soul's on a journey. Right. And what is the catalyst? Because we've, when we study people that have healed from their health conditions, they're not victimized by it. I mean, I'm moved by it because they say, no, you know what? I would have never changed. I would have never, ever changed unless I had that health condition. I would have never made the effort. And that was the irritation that drove me. So if you can see that, well, yeah, there are certain things about, say, comparing a person in lack and a person who's sick, there may be some variations. But what is consistent is the things that people limit themselves with when it comes to making change, right? Because the person who's sick, I mean, you know this, a chronic health condition requires a lifestyle change. That's 95 plus percentage of population. That's, that means, you know, that's choices and behaviors, But nobody's talking about change, right? So, but the person who's a single mother with three kids and is living in stress and living in survival and doing their best, that's a different conversation, right? That person has to understand what stress and survival is doing to them. And their first hurdle is to move out of stress and move out of survival. And that's not an easy thing when you're working to make ends meet. But by the same means, if you give them a formula to help them from a different dimension to be able to start seeing if they can produce outcomes in their life, then all of a sudden it kind of unifies. So the person who's facing a health condition and a person who's facing a lack of abundance, there are personality traits that we still have to overcome. You can't use feelings as a barometer for change. You'll always talk to yourself how to do it. You can't say I don't feel like it. You can't make excuses. You can't say I'll start tomorrow. You can't be envious and jealous of other people. You can't focus on worst-case scenarios. These are things that we all do when we're out of balance. And complaining, all of those things, have no vision, make no time for yourself, never invest in yourself. And I always say to people, really, study abundant people. You'll see that they just had this vision. They were uncompromising to the vision. They made time for themselves. They learned from their mistakes. They adapted. They got discouraged. They got ripped off. They got stolen from. They got back up. They cleaned themselves off. And they just kept going. And it's the lessons that we learn along the way, I think, what stops us from making those same choices again in our lives. So you're absolutely correct. I think there is a unique quality of each one. But there's a lot of things about the human condition that is similar when it comes time to the act of changing. because people who heal in this work, they're not doing their meditations to heal. They're doing their meditations to change, right? And they understand that when they change, they heal. Here's the vision of the person, their abundant life, and here's where they're at as a personality. Or it doesn't matter if it's abundance or just getting in shape. If you're going to get in shape, you can't be this person any longer. What does that mean? You got to think differently. You got to make a lot of different choices. You got to do a lot of different things. You got to keep showing up. We're going to be consistent, keep recreating the experience, keep feeling the emotion. All of a sudden you become this person. But the process of change is still the same. And it's just that it's just so much easier to forget our vision than to remember it. Right. So there's got to be some type of employment for the person to continuously, you know, invest their attention and energy and continue the process But it the same Absolutely Yeah And I would describe this sort of the collective field of stuckness as victim consciousness Like that the language I would use And I also have come to appreciate that there's secondary gain, right? Like there are things that people get out of their struggles that are often subconscious and very difficult to acknowledge and certainly difficult to point out because then you get accused of victim shaming and right and blaming the people who are in their struggles for being responsible for their struggles. But it doesn't seem again in your work, it doesn't seem like it's super necessary to address what you might be getting out of. Like if I am chronically ill, I might get boundaries, right? Because I don't I don't have to explain this to you, obviously, but I don't have to say no. I don't have to learn how to say no simply because I don't want to, I can say I have a migraine. I also don't have to ask for attention, caretaking, leadership, guidance, because it just comes with being a patient, particularly in the allopathic system, right? So my needs are met. The secondary gain is quite real in the patient archetype. And the same is true for financial struggles, right? But again, in your work, it doesn't seem super important to really dive into all that because Because you can just, when again, like you said, the pain of your reality outweighs the promise of the unknown, you just can decide, choose to take these steps that you outline to begin to shift your reality. Again, from the, you would call it like the 5D, right? And it doesn't matter to do all the psychoanalysis. We're only looking back to the past and telling the story of it when we feel the emotions of it. It's really hard to look at the past when you're feeling the emotions of your future, right? And we tend to believe in our future more when we feel the emotions associated with it. So then what does the person stop, right? They stop when they try it for two or three days and they look around and they say, what didn't work? Well, you're not that good. like you didn't put your time in, like you didn't, you really, it's not realistic. It's not, that's not how it works. Your belief in yourself must be earned. And it's an initiation, right? It's an initiation process because the person who ultimately becomes abundant was never about their abundance. It was who they became. That's what they learned. Like, oh my God, I was just, I was a miserable person. Now I'm a happy person. And of course, this is what I'm, this is what I deserve. So then you default immediately with an emotional reaction. You can't see that future any longer. You only can tell the story of your past. And 50% of it isn't even the truth. We make it up because we excuse ourselves from changing. So people are reliving a miserable life they never even had just to excuse themselves from changing. I think the serious part about that is that they find people in their life that do the same. And they use each other to reaffirm their addiction to victimization. and you can get a lot of agreement there, right? The person who says enough, like I want to tell the story of my future instead of my past. I want to believe in my future more than I believe in my past. Well, the intention to have that future has no fuel unless they bring the excitement, the energy, the motivation, the inspiration, the optimism. Nobody's going to do that for us. like that's something that we have to bring up on our own. So that is the fuel that gets people to continuously show up and continuously do. And just like learning anything, whether you're learning how to salsa or snowboard or hit a tennis ball, it doesn't matter. In the beginning, it takes a lot of conscious effort. And if you stick with it, things start to fall into the fold and it gets easier. And that's when people start stepping out of their past, right? And so we know how to do this. We've all done something really amazing in our life at least once. And what did we do? We just got really clear. And you saw it so clearly that you started to feel the emotion associated with it. And that thought and that feeling, that image and that emotion, constantly doing it, that stimulus and response will condition the body emotionally to be connected to that future. And it's really a paradox because when you're feeling the emotions of your future before it happens, you're no longer looking for it. Why would you look for it if you feel like it's already happened? We only look for it when we're in that mentality of lack or scarcity. When we're in lack, we're looking like we're waiting for something out there to change in our life, to take away this feeling of lack. That's kind of the old model of reality of cause and effect. Some people spend their whole life living and lack. But if you can teach your body emotionally what the future feels like before it happens and you keep doing that, you'll consistently believe in that future. And when you do, you'll behave accordingly. And if you keep behaving accordingly, you'll ultimately become it. And that's the model, believe, behave and become. And so what I'm proud of in our community is that it's just not philosophical, it's not theoretical, it's not just analytical. biblical there is a very practical component to it and i'm proud of our community because people do the work in the community because when they invest in themselves they invest in their future and they show up because they don't want the magic to end once you start hitting a fold when it starts flowing for you it's not like i have to it's like i i want to i don't want to i don't want to stop like whatever's working it's all coming to me and i i don't know what how it's happening, but I don't care. I don't want to jinx it. I want to keep doing this. And I think that's really valuable for a person because they're no longer telling that story any longer. It's incidental. And you get to tell the story of your past when you overcome it, right? And I've had people on the stage that have healed from really serious health conditions, some of them genetic disorders that we didn't know medical science didn't have a solution for. And I asked them, like, you want to tell a story of your healing? And some of them, you know, a year later say, I don't even remember that story. Like, like, yeah, so what? I'm not, they were abused and they had all this stuff, a violent, you know, parent. And they're just like, I'm good. Like, I don't want to tell that story. And that's the same thing when it comes to, like, forgiving our past. It's like, when you're feeling the feelings of your future, you're good. Like, you're good. Like, everybody's good. Like, you're not, you're not obsessing. You're not in the way, you know, you're good. And so, So many people think that they have to wait for the experience to happen to produce the emotion from the experience to take away the lack. Sure, that's three-dimensional reality. But when you're creating from the field, then you have to feel the emotion before the experience. And that emotion is the energy that literally starts conforming reality. It's the fuel that begins to change it. So, yeah, it's a practice. It's a practice. But the fun part is when it starts to happen, who gets to be the beneficiary of a beneficiary? You do, right? We do. And then how does that lead? It leads to changes in our relationships with everybody. And then you're more giving. And we've all done this. We've all said, I have this vision. And you wrote down the things that you needed, the choices you were going to make and the things you're going to do and your goals and your experiences. And you got worked up and you felt the emotions. And then you said something really brilliant like, I'm going to write down the thoughts that are going to stop me from my future. I can't. It's too hard. It's this person's fault. Get really clear because when those thoughts come up, they can't slip by your awareness unchecked by you. What choices do I have to stop making? That's the hardest part about change. Stop making the same choice as you did the day before. You're going to be uncomfortable. Okay, I'm going to be uncomfortable. I know that. I got to stop these habits. I can't complain. I can't blame. I can't make excuses. Now you're out of the bleachers and you're on the playing field because that's to know thyself, right? And when you're in the jar, you can't read the labels. So you got to get outside the jar, right? And so you got to constantly observe the self. Let me remind myself what emotions I'm not going to feel. what experiences I want to stay away from with certain people at certain times. That is the breaking the habit of the old self. But at the same time, if I could become so conscious of my unconscious self that I won't go unconscious and default, that's a victory, right? Now I'm overcoming my past self, and then could I create a future self, right? So then how do I want to think? What do I want to believe? A belief is just a thought you keep thinking over and over again. Let me just keep remembering to think this way. If you keep remembering to think this way, nerve cells that fire together, wire together, you start creating a new voice in your head. How will I behave differently? Let me close my eyes and rehearse how I'm going to be in this circumstance. Let me review it. And what emotions could I feel? If I keep thinking differently, if I keep acting differently, if I keep feeling differently, if I'm embodying the qualities and characteristics of an abundant person, my life should change. And I'm going to see if that's the truth. And that's what you prove to yourself. And as I said, your belief in yourself has to be earned. No one's going to do that for you. No one's going to come for you. The person who does it every day, all of a sudden they reach this point where they feel worthy. Like they feel really worthy. I've put my time in. I've made great strides. I'm happy with myself. And that's when it all starts to change. That's the moment we look for. There is so much of this wisdom in that program, of course, however you want to refer to it. And also the exact meditations and experiences that you anchor yourself into to begin to practice this. because I appreciate you're like this gentle drill sergeant. I appreciate that because I come at change and identity shifts with a similar energy, that there's a kind of accountability, like a go big or go home commitment that you make that anchors all of the mysterious epiphenomenon of what is going to emerge. Amazing. Okay, I have one last question, which is I just want, we could do a weekend workshop on this, But I wonder, I wonder, like, how do you think about the nature of money? Like everybody's got their spiritual definition of like what money actually is. But how do you think of the nature of money? Because if people are interested in expanding their definition of abundance, and obviously that includes finances and fiat currency and assets and all of these kind of secular definitions. I just wonder how you think about it. Like when you when you look at money moving around between folks and transacting, like, do you just see energy? Do you see it as a permission slip to be alive? Like, do you see it as, you know, I'm sure this is not the case, but like a feminine thing, a masculine thing. Like, how do you conceptualize? Yeah, I think for me, I look at it two ways. First is just my relationship. I have a relation. I have a relationship with money. Like, so I know people that have really a really poor relationship with money. and it's just no different than any relationship you have with anybody else. So I'm practical. If I have more than I need, I know that if I give in that way and I have a good relationship with money and I'm accountable and I do all the things that I'm supposed to do, I'll always have it, right? And for me, someone was asking me, this one of my staff was asking me, I never in my life really had a thought about money, like if there's enough or there isn't enough. I just knew that I was going to be okay. And for me, that was important. Now, do I think money is the totality of the way human beings should be living? No, I don't think so at all. I think it's a limited way to exchange something based on value, right? So I've paid for things that really were probably way overpriced at times, but I didn't care because to me, I was happy with it. And other times by principle, I wouldn't do it. I could just because of a principle, like, you know, a principle. I wouldn't do that because I'm principled. But for me, when it comes to portfolios and investing and all that stuff, it just has to make sense to me. And I love having experts around me that help me with that. Once I learn and I understand, yeah, that I'm willing to do what I always do in my life, and that is create or stretch myself or take a little bit bigger of a risk or chance to see what it produces. So, yeah, for me, money is flow, right? And I just think it's a limited way that we ascribe to real abundance and wealth because I know people in my life that are really, really masterful at life. And they're happy with what they have. It's not the race to see how many millions of dollars they could have. But the fact that you know that you can create it, to me, is where I ultimately like to lead our community. Again, I think there's something transcendent of money that has to do with creating. Like, I mean, creating opportunities or creating abundance really has nothing to do with money. It just has to do with your understanding of how to create. So I think there's a limited way that we exchange things based on value, but it works. But I'm practical and I'm organized and I'm clear. And I do like to use it. I do like to play with it. I do like to try things out with it. Well, I hope that you continue to move beyond your initial resistance when you are asked to speak on a topic, because we all want to know your take on so many applications of these concepts and worldview-related principles and also just recontextualize the same teaching, because that's essentially what you do on all these topics. It's the same fundamental teachings. It's just the application is tailored to the biases that I think we come with around like, well, what's actually wrong if I'm struggling with money? What's actually wrong if I'm sick? What's actually wrong if I'm alone? And the reconnection to our creative power, I think, is such a beautiful summary of what you offer. And I am so deeply, deeply grateful that you are out there doing this. I mean, like literally every two weeks of your life, I do not understand how you have. I truly I don't know that anybody does unless they can like see you do it and just witness the phenomenon that you're doing this. And you said on stage that you have no plans to close up shop anytime soon. So I'm also very grateful. No, I can't. I mean, like right now, first of all, it's really difficult for me to stop doing live events because I think there's something that really powerful that happens, the transcendent of just looking at someone on a screen two dimensionally. There's some multidimensional thing that happens when you get people together. So I always want to do the in-person events because there is that emergent consciousness that continuously takes place. But by the same means, you know, when we take over a hotel for eight days or 10 days or whatever, we have to book those like years in advance. So I can tell you that I'm for the next four or five years here and I'll be doing this at least till then. Yeah. I mean, this is what I mean, too. I mean, it's like the way that you run your business. I mean, you're an extraordinary teacher on the subject of abundance from the very little slice we're talking about when it comes to entrepreneurship and what it takes to translate a thought to a thing, you know, to create from the very, very secular realm of things all the way to the metaphysical. And I'm just very, very deeply grateful. It was so fun to reconnect to you. And I'm sure I'll be tapping you to come back on in the future. Sure, sure. And thank you for all that you do. I'm so happy you came and I love what your message is and all the people you're helping. I really appreciate it.