136: The Hidden Origins of Christmas & Modern Holidays | Lara J. Day

We had all of these various pagan traditions and cultures, but then you do have the Roman Catholic Church that came in, and in order to unite all of these different beliefs under one umbrella, they overlaid the Christian story and then incorporated that imagery into the holiday that they were curating for the masses. These rituals have been spoon-fed to us in order to change our behavior. Tell us a bit more about Christmas. I'm sure there are many layers, that you've come upon in these years of truth. Christmas in the early days in the colonies looked nothing like what we call Christmas today. In Massachusetts, in between 1659 and 1681, Christmas was outlawed. The original depiction of Santa Claus was that he was an elf. And then Thomas Nast, the cartoonist, made him larger than life and had this round jolly belly. Even the color red became solidified through Thomas Nast's cartoon. That is why we have all of the traditions and the imagery that we do surrounding Christmas today. It's time for us to really consciously choose how we want to celebrate these sacred moments. Hi and welcome back to Reclamation Radio. I'm Dr. Kelly Brogan. And today I sit down to bless your holiday season with a conversation with Laura Day, who is the creator of the 13 Sacred Nights Oracle Deck. I have been, if you've been following me for a while, a big solstice celebrator. Why? Because I was a Christmas rejecter and other commercial holiday rejecter. And my experience of solstice has morphed over the years from a ritual that I pretty much like imposed on my kids that was very Kundalini informed to one that is an extremely sweet, like relational check-in and celebration by a fire that my daughters seem to be extremely into. And this deck, which I learned about three years ago now, has just grounded the season for me and those nights between Christmas Eve and New Year's in this fun, mysterious, playful ritual that we're going to introduce you to in this conversation. And I want to know about the cards that you pull. So last year, the cards that I pulled, right, because on the first night you'll learn, which is Christmas Eve or the 24th, the third night after the solstice, an imprint, like a template, for your coming so-called calendar year. And then each of the following nights correspond to a month. And it is so cool to write this down and keep it handy. Like I have a page on the front of my journal where I write down, you know, my January, February, March, what I pulled and then the full year. So mine for this year are extraordinarily on point. OK, so I pulled. So there's an animal, there's a gem and there's like a plant. OK, so I pulled the crow, which is all about the power of the word. That's been a huge, huge, huge theme for me this year. Resolving my self-deprecating language, for example. The next is Moldavite, which is a lot around, which is a spiritual awakening card and specifically has to do with moving beyond the mind and being with what is. And for me, this year has been, if anything, about coming to a humbling perspective on connection and neutrality with that I had formerly judged and rejected. And then my plant was meadow sweet. And it's all about grace and composure and confidence and this inner royalty. I cannot tell you how much that theme has resonated for me in this year. It's extraordinary. And then very specific things. For August, I pulled the bear. That's all about retreat and rest. What did I do in August? I went to a Joe Dispenza, seven day. It can be so on the nose. And when you track your dreams and experiences, you'll just find that the future is an illusion, right? Like it's already all here. And this practice is so fun. I really encourage you to get a hold of your deck. Of course, the link is in show notes and as is your discount code. So enjoy this and happy holidays. Welcome, Laura, to the show. Thank you, Kelly. I'm so grateful and happy to be here. I have been really looking forward to this conversation because I feel at this moment the most receptive that potentially I've ever been about the subject of holidays and their significance. How do we orient towards them as sovereignty loving folks? And I wanted to give a little bit of contextual background on how I've handled the holidays before I pass the mic to you to really educate me and everybody listening about the tremendous information that you have curated and collected and that has ultimately informed the republication of your extraordinary Oracle deck. And I know that you never set out to be like a tarot girl because you have many different lineages that you draw from. And I'd love to unpack that as well. But this deck is the 13 Sacred Knights Oracle Deck. And I don't know that I'd ever come on my own podcast to like glaze a deck. I mean, it's not typically on brand for me, but everybody in my personal life owns one of these. Why? Because I have gifted it to them. When I did Audacious Embodiment, the in-person event, every speaker got a deck that was the primary gifts that, you know, I offered them also because it was November that the event took place. And so they could, you know, prepare for the use of this deck in this very specific window of time at the end of the year. And you have made this like, you know, plug and play for us. how to really merge with the mystical nature of that window of time. And so I'm super excited to deliver this opportunity, really, to everybody listening and a really, I would say, awakened context for how we're orienting towards the holidays. So I wanted to explain first, before I hand you the mic, where I'm coming from, because I bet a lot of the folks listening can relate. So when I began to question things, so at this point, it was about 16 years ago, I did not stop at health and medicine, you know, childbirth, all the things. So I just went down every rabbit hole that was presented to me that goes on to the current day. But I very quickly began to look at the sort of like reflexive rituals and commercial, what I would call commercial holidays. So like Thanksgiving and Christmas and I didn't so much include New Year's in that at that time, but like even Valentine's Day or Easter or Fourth of July. And I just said, you know what? Fuck all y'all. I'm not doing any of this. I don't believe in this. And if, you know, if it's being promulgated by the powers that be, then I'm opting out. Okay, so my daughters were pretty young when I said, I'm not interested in participating in Christmas and presents. And my mom's Italian, so we always did like the Christmas Eve shenanigans. And I just said, I'm not participating. And the way that polarity works is that my daughters are extremely passionate about holidays. Whether it's Halloween or Christmas, like Thanksgiving, they love holidays. and their dad is very supportive. So it works out. And I spent eight years or so, eight or nine years, just like alone on Thanksgiving or with my then partner or, you know, just apart from like a kind of like, like hovering outside of whatever was going on. I was pretty judgy about it, right? Like I was looking in and saying like, oh, all these, you're just like in automaton mode. Like you're not even thinking about what are you even doing? And you're just buying and eating. And like, what is this even about? And then the lies about Native Americans and the history of this country, like just all of it. Like every holiday, I had a very judgy thing going on. I wrote this like totally inflammatory blog about how Santa is a pedophile archetype. I mean, like, yeah, I was like on a mission to deconstruct holidays. And then as a single woman, I've had my like, what is that saying about like eating humble pie or whatever? Like I've had my moments where I'm like, Hey guys, um, can I come over for Thanksgiving? You know, like, and feel like a bit left out. So all of this time, however, I've been anchored by a solstice, like solstice. If you ask my girls, they'll say like solstice is mama's holiday. It's the only one. And it's because at the time I was in my Kundalini. So this was a decade and a half ago or so in my Kundalini training. And so the observation of these equinoxes was a part of the sort of ethos and culture, right, of that world. And then we got into Waldorf. And so the Steinarian perspective on it sort of informed that even further. And I was, I used to be very like ritualized about it. Like I'd have us do like three minute Kundalini meditation together and dress up all in white or whatever. And amazingly, you know, my daughters are teenagers now. I would have thought they would have like eye-rolled this because they eye roll a lot of my stuff that I've just let go of. You know, like I don't force information down their throats any longer. I haven't for years. But it's interesting that they really get into it. They love it. And it's morphed into more of like a relational check-in, like a relational celebration. That sounds really lame. But basically, we like make a little fire and we review the year. So over the course of the year, I write on little papers, like funny or amazing things that happen. And so there'll be like 75 little papers that I've kept in a box of like hysterical things that happened when we went to, you know, Europe or whatever that day on the boat, you know, kind of a thing. And then also beautiful things that have happened. So we review those. And then, you know, another salient thing is like we we make an ask of each other, like kind of a vulnerable ask. You know, each of the three of us makes of each of the other two. Does that make sense? and one of the things we do is we pull one card from your deck. Okay, my girls are not tarot card girls. Okay. However, it's always, always, first of all, you're such a beautiful writer. It's so powerful and these cards are so beautiful and for whatever reason, they're super receptive and open and that is how we sort of anchor in together this season that I'm otherwise not a participant in, you know, like at all. So that's sort of where I've come from, where I have great skepticism about the stories we're told about any of these holidays, their purpose, right, socially, and the potential like, you know, risks of just sort of perpetuating this thoughtlessly. I also love having like, I want to say an alternative because that's that's like saying alternative medicine or whatever. But I love having this rebrand. Let's call it a rebrand. And so I'd love, with that context, I'd love for you to take us into your journey around holidays. Like, why is this something that even has relevance for you? And how do you bridge the gap between rejecting aspects of the, you know, as told stories about our holidays? And let's start with Christmas with this, you know, potential ritual and practice that has clearly brought like so much meaning not only to your and your daughter's lives, but also to everyone who is touched by your work. Wow. Well, first of all, I'm just really glad that you started out with your journey and your story, because I think there's so much that so many people will resonate with that. And, you know, the moment that I really decided that it was a good idea to follow through with this project of creating the Oracle deck. And like you said, I never really intended to be like a tarot girl. I wasn't really that into Oracle decks. I only used them because of this practice that I fell in love with the year my daughter was born. and having a lot of the same frustrations you did, just sick of the commercialism, wanting to create something more meaningful, more real for our family, you know, with this brand new baby. And and then this this practice was I didn't go looking for it. It just arrived, you know, in a from my teacher in a training that I was already taking part in. But the moment when I really thought, OK, this the world is ready for this. and I need to create this thing that's, you know, been knocking on my door, was I was hanging out with a friend of mine who I've known since we were kids. And he's very straight-laced, you know, ER doctor, not hippy-dippy-trippy at all, probably didn't even know what an Oracle deck was, you know. And he's got three daughters. And I was telling him and his wife about this project that I was thinking of doing. And he was like so interested and asking all these questions, you know, and saying to his wife, we should do this with the girls. This would be really great, you know, and and I'm sitting here going, wow, if this this bro friend of mine, you know, is into this, then the world is ready for this. And people are just so sick of the commercialism and yet maybe don't quite know how to celebrate this season. They're perhaps traumatized by, you know, religion and their their youth and adolescence and upbringing and don't really want to go back to that, but but kind of don't know how to market. And yet intuitively, we all feel that this is a special time. It's a sacred time. Right. And so so that was sort of a turning point for me when I decided to go ahead and and really follow through and creating the Oracle deck. Then, you know, the diving into the history and where our holidays came from and all of that really came later, mostly with the creation of the new elevated edition with my publishers. They were curious about the history and they said, what do you think about including a history section? And I thought, wow, well, I've been doing this practice for I think it was 15 years at the time. And and I don't actually really know where it came from. I just love it. You know it changed my life for the better in so many ways not only my holiday season and giving me something deeper to anchor into but honestly it really shifted the way that I moved through my entire life more aware of and awake to this conversation that we always in with the divine, whether we recognize it or not. So I took on the assignment and dove into the history of Christmas, really, and the winter solstice. And I was really surprised with what I uncovered there. And so I started sharing that with folks. And then as I was doing that, they would inevitably ask me, you know, well, what about Valentine's Day or what do you know about Halloween? And I would be like, no, no, I'm just the Christmas girl. I don't know about that stuff, you know. And then and then eventually after after so many asks, I thought, you know, people are really wanting this information. I was getting curious myself. And so I have now read a total of, you know, 32 books on the history of our holidays and the solstice and, you know, all the pagan holidays and rituals and where kind of all of this came from. it's a really muddy, tangled history, but there is some there's some pattern to it that we can pull out and begin to sort of catch on that these holidays did not just trickle down organically from old world roots, but that there really was this multilayered process of them being used numerous times by people in power or those wanting more power in order to shape and manipulate and guide the behavior of the masses. So once we begin to see that over and over again and understand that these sacred moments, they really are so powerful because we are all collectively in a given culture, right, pausing and saying, this is what's important. We're all pausing together And we're all directing our attention in one way and in one direction. And so, you know, not only is that powerful because I personally believe that human consciousness is divinely creative, but it's also powerful because we're informing the upcoming generations. This is what's most important about being human. Right. And so they're learning how to be a part of this culture. And right now, I would say that we are teaching the future generations that shopping, sugar and alcohol are what is most important. Right. These are our sacred moments. And this is what we focus on. And this is what's most important about being human. So, yeah, I'll pause there and let you respond. I would love to pick your brain and I imagine it's like a weekend workshop to go over each and every holidays, you know, potentially nefarious origins. However, before we get to the 13 nights and what that means and what this practice really consists of and where your deck comes in, I would love to touch on maybe like three or four to just sort of get a little glimpse into this pattern you're referencing. Because I think that a lot of folks listening are aware that the church, quote unquote, often veils the occult, meaning like that there are occult practices masquerading as Christianity. and that the co-opting of these so-called pagan rituals was very deliberate, as I hear you insinuating, and the representation of them as Christian and or even like sort of secular, right? So I'd love to hear about Valentine's Day, for example, taking these holidays that have origins that are never actually overtly revealed, right? Like nobody, if you went around and pulled people like, you know, where actually does Valentine's Day come from? Like, oh, St. Valentine, you know, it's like some parroted superficial, probably nonsense. So I'd love to start with Christmas and whatever other ones were like, wow, that's interesting in your journey to discover sort of what a brief summary of the truer story seems to be. Yeah. So the pattern that I mentioned and that, you know, you referenced is really it's kind of like a four layer cake is the way I describe it. And so originally we had all of these various pagan traditions and cultures and religions and pagan just meaning not part of the mainstream chosen religion. Right. And so already that's already a tangled mess in and of itself, because they're already sharing with each other, influencing each other, conquering each other, trading with each other, you know. And so some of these traditions are already really mixed up in their origins. Right. So it's not like all of these, you know, pagan holidays like popped up already complete in one culture. And that's where we got X, Y or Z from, you know, so it's already complex. But then you do have the Roman Catholic Church that came in and in order to unite all of these different beliefs under one umbrella, they overlaid the Christian story, right? And the Christian themes and meaning. And so so that's the sort of first two layers, right, as you have this, the original pagan religions that for the most part were their traditions came from observing nature and being more in tune with nature and the rhythm of the seasons and the stars and the behavior of the sun and the moon. and, you know, just being cultures that were much more closely living, much more closely with nature. So a lot of the original traditions, you know, they are born from aligning and celebrating the equinoxes, the solstices, the cross-quarter days like that. So because of that, a lot of the themes tend to be the same. In the spring, we have rebirth, you know, which became resurrection and fertility rites. Again, Valentine's Day, same. These are early spring rituals. So, OK, so that's the second layer. And then the third layer would be that darn those pesky pagans, they're really hard to stamp out. And so around the Victorian age in the 17 and 1800s, a lot of the original pagan traditions, which were often more ruckus or rowdy or promiscuous, were still bubbling up through the surface of the veneer of Christianity that had been overlaid. Right. And so what happened was the upper middle class sort of wanted to further domesticate or really stamp out those rowdy and ruckus behaviors. And so there became this Victorian age domestication, further domestication of the holidays. And each holiday kind of did that in a different way. And so that would be the third layer of the four layer cake. And then the fourth layer is commercialism and really just opportunistic, you know, the opportunistic association of different industries and shops and whatnot with the Victorian overlay. And so it was really this four layer process of arriving at where we are today. And I love what you what you mentioned that, you know, you're watching all these people kind of sleepwalk through these traditions. and we just have no clue where they originally came from, why we do things the way that we do. You know, and if we understood that largely these rituals have been spoon fed to us in order to change our behavior, then we might be less protective and defensive of them. Because what I find is that when I start talking about, well, is Santa Claus, is that really what the myth that we want to teach our children and and does is that have a positive you know influence on them and their psyche and and everything else or you know to start picking apart some of these traditions people get angry you know really really defensive of their like you you know holiday kill joy you know like oh you're what what terrible parenting you know why would you why would you take away our santa claus you know and it's like well i've been there yeah so it's like do you even know where it came from. And when people start to understand a little bit more of the history, then that defensiveness, you know, softens. And I believe that it's time for us to really consciously choose how we want to celebrate these sacred moments because they are so powerful. So, you know, that's kind of where I'm at. It sounds like you've come to the conclusion that there's a lot of like zodiacal coding around the even astrological transits and markers throughout the year in what we are calling holidays, right? So you mentioned the, you know, the resurrection, the spring equinox, and I'm sure you've encountered the perspective that the Gregorian calendar is like designed to kind of throw us off these cycles. So we have like 12 instead of 13 moon cycles that, you know, September is actually the seventh month. October is the eighth month. It's built in to the actual linguistics. And so do you think that there's like, I mean, whether it's intentional or whatever, I always assume everything's intentional. You know, is it sort of throwing us off the path of our relationship to the natural world? Is that a part of what maybe one of the consequences intended or otherwise of these commercialized holidays? A hundred percent. You know, I think it's just everything's become so materialistic, so commercial. and I mean that was one of the great gifts of stepping into the 13 Sacred Nights practice was beginning to just pay attention because you're doing this ritual and just in a sneaky way, not because I suddenly decided I was going to sit down and pay attention to the rhythm of the seasons but it's inherent within the practice so it begins to just help us notice that the seasons are passing and notice how our inner world is in fact reflected in nature or vice versa, you know. And so I'll often say that the 13 Sacred Nights practice is the co-creative process amplified by aligning ourselves with nature. We're planting our dream seeds in the fertile soil of the darkness or what I call the womb of winter. They're sprouting in the spring. In the summertime, we are living the dream that we planted in the darkness back in the peak of winter. So everything is fully expanded, you know, in full bloom. And then there's this richness in the fall where we're harvesting the fruits of our labor, reflecting on the year gone by, maybe deciding what you want to throw on the compost pile, what you want to keep for another cycle of seasons before diving back in. So we really begin to just step back into relationship with nature, which we're so removed from. And it doesn't have to be, you know, some profound, you're not studying the lunar cycles or the stars or anything. It's just little, little ways that we can begin to pay attention and step back into relationship there. I believe that movement is medicine. And even though I prioritize exercise and dance, I'm definitely not walking five miles a day barefoot to get the micro impact that my biology is expecting. Unlike vibration plates, though, Juvent's micro impact platform is an expertly calibrated and personalized technology with data behind their claims around enhancing athletic performance, musculoskeletal support, and a host of benefits related to lymphatics and fascia. When you invest in one of these for your family, you can put it in the living room and hop on it for 10 to 20 minutes a day, knowing that you're supporting your longevity and youthful body in ways that are actually proven. So it's juvent.com forward slash Kelly Brogan. The code is Kelly 300 to get $300 off at checkout and your future body will thank you. If you don't completely love it after six weeks, you can return it for a full refund. No questions asked. Enjoy. Tell us before we move on a bit more about Christmas and where you're at, because I'm sure Were there many layers that you've come upon in these years of truth, you know, when it comes to Christmas? Christmas was my favorite researching. There's a book called The Battle for Christmas by Stephen or Stefan Nissenbaum that was one of the most revealing books for me. And he really details how Christmas in the early days in the colonies looked nothing like what we call Christmas today. And in fact, in Massachusetts in between 1659 and 1681, Christmas, what we call Christmas, was outlawed. And you would receive a five shilling fine if you were caught celebrating Christmas. So that doesn't make any sense to us today, because why would you get, you know, fined for gathering with your family and giving presents to your children? You know, it's like what? But Christmas in the colonies in the early days looked more like Saturnalia, which was the ancient Roman festival of midwinter that was a festival of misrule and complete societal inversion. So it was really like a society wide release valve where slaves were served by slave owners and children ruled the household and a fool was crowned king. There was cross-dressing. There was public promiscuity. There was gambling, debauchery, gorging, you know, just just complete upheaval. It was more like carnival, really, very carnivalesque. And so those were the traditions that were bubbling up in the colonies in the early days. And then alongside the Puritans, right, who were just not having it. And of course, it was their belief that Christ was not born on on on the 25th or Christmas Day in the first place. And they were more Easter was there was there more important holiday. So they just weren't having all of this Christmas, you know, shenanigans. And and then basically what happened was in the 1800s, the elites or the upper class were also pulling away from these traditions. So in the old world, the whole society willingly participated. it. And it was almost like, well, if we entertain this, you know, two week period and, you know, go along with this little game, then for the rest of the year, we'll be ensured good service and the, you know, societal ranking order will kind of go back to normal. And it was almost ensuring that everybody would stay in their place by allowing for this, you know, two week, you know, let the steam out of the kettle. So in the 17 and 1800s, the elites in the United States were pulling away from these traditions. So if you can imagine a group of rowdy, probably drunken young men showing up at a wealthy manor to perform their songs which they called wassailing Here we go we wassailing right Or if you think of some of our Christmas carols you know oh give us some figgy pudding We won go until we get some There was these groups these bands of youths going door to door asking for alcohol money or sweets in exchange for their performances Wassailing and or mumming, which was putting on plays, these sort of ridiculous plays that they would put on and then expect gifts in return. So it was a it was a mingling of the upper classes with the lower classes. Right. And again, the elites are pulling away from this. So they started closing their doors and saying, no, we're not going to give you any of our cider that we have in the cellar or whatever it was. And you can imagine how that escalated very quickly into violence and vandalism. And, you know, it was not a good scene. So this very small group of intellectual elites, New York intellectual elites, they called themselves the Knickerbockers. They got together and they quite literally rebranded Christmas in order to quiet down this rowdy, undesirable behavior. And it was very intentional. and it wasn't just a nostalgic yearning for roots. It was like, we need to put an end to this mayhem. So it was, first was Washington Irving. He wrote a satirical history of New York, which later years, a lot of it sort of became urban myth or even taken as truth, even though it was originally meant to be satirical. Followed by John Pintard, who was a Freemason. And then some other individuals, Thomas Nast was a cartoonist who, he was the one who came up with the donkey and the elephant cartoons for, yeah, political cartoons. He was a political cartoonist, but he really further developed the imagery of Santa Claus. Clement Clark Moore in 1823 wrote the poem The Night Before Christmas. And that poem actually really solidified a lot of our imagery around what we now call Christmas. But it was this very intentional effort among these elite intellectuals to dream up a romantic version of this holiday that would have the masses feeling like they were plugged into their old world roots. And yet it would, you know, change the holiday so that it was within celebrated within the walls of the parlor. And we have, you know, the Christmas tree that they borrowed. They sort of cherry picked old world traditions and curated this more domesticated holiday that would do away with the loud street parades in the middle of the night. It would do away with mumming and wassailing and the exchanging of gifts or money between the classes. And it would be about the children. That was a very commonly used technique was to refocus the holidays towards children and and the family unit and these more Victorian age moral domestic values. So we have in Clement Clark's Clement Clark Moore in his poem The Night Before Christmas, he talks about the jolly old the jolly old elf, St. Nicholas, and the eight tiny reindeer. The original depiction of Santa Claus was that he was an elf. He was this tiny, you know, little it was this this he was sort of beginning to create this imagery. And then Thomas Nass, the cartoonist that I spoke of, was the one who kind of made him larger than life and had this round jolly belly and, you know, added even the color red became solidified through Thomas Nass cartoon. And so it wasn't an overnight holiday that they created, but but it was very intentional and they were communicating with each other. And, oh, what if we do this? And yes, that would, you know, again, the Christmas tree. Oh, and the and the presents for the children. Well, that would keep the activity centered within the family and within the walls of the home. And so it was very intentional. And that is why we have all of the traditions and the imagery that we do surrounding Christmas today. Wow. So it sounds like you've explored a lot of the social driving forces behind the re-envisioning or even envisioning of this holiday. And that the role of Jesus, right, and its moniker, Christ Mass, right, like to this day, it seems quite, I mean, I didn't hear you mention it once in this story, right? So like, yeah, no. In fact, they said the house of the house of God will not vanquish the house of ale. So they came up with a new deity, which was Santa Claus and the commercialism. Right. And the gift giving to the children. And yeah, it was God wasn't working. Christ wasn't working. Right. Right. And it's not even actually a part of the the whether it's a story or a real history, depending on your belief system, that he was actually even born that day. Right. Well, and I think actually most most Christians, maybe some don't know, but most Christians and even the church readily acknowledges that nobody knows when Christ was actually born and that that day was actually chosen. That was back with Constantine the Great in the year, in the century, the 300s of after AD or whatever they're calling it now, BCE, Common Era. So they aligned the birth of Christ with the solstice, essentially, or the 25th. So solstice means the sun stands still. Sol meaning sun and sistere to stand still. So in Latin, that comes from the sun standing still. So what happens is the solstice is around the 21st, give or take, and then the sun appears to stand still on the horizon for three days. And then after that third day, it begins to move again. So on that third day, we get incrementally more and more light. And so the light is being reborn, right? The sun is born. The sun is born, right. The light is streaming back in. And so for all of those ancient sun worship religions and cultures, that was a very powerful time to overlay the birth of this new deity that they wanted everyone to focus on. So there was a very, to rewind back to those times, that was a very conscious way of, they felt it would be more effective in bringing along all the pagans if they allowed them to maintain some of their festivals, some of their rituals, some of their timing, but to then give it a new meaning, right? To Christianize the existing holidays. So the 25th was the birth date of Sol Invictus, which was he was the Roman sun god, the unconquerable sun god. Do you think that there is any veracity in the sort of like Amanita, Mascara, like, you know, psychedelic reindeer urine? You know, Santa's just a mushroom story. That one always comes up. I think, again, like all these cultures were already borrowing from each other and themes were already blending and mixing. That one comes up a lot, especially in the circles that you and I tend to run in. They're fond of the Amanita muscaria theory. I think it's incomplete. I think that, yeah, I think perhaps Thomas Nast maybe unknowingly borrowed from that tradition. Maybe red, you know, was already established as a midwinter color because of the mushroom. I've also heard that, no, it was just because of the holly berries in the snow, you know, the red and white. And certainly reindeer were liminal, seen as liminal creatures, that there were many cultures that had myths of reindeer or even not reindeer. Maybe it was horses and some or an eight legged horse in one case with Odin, the Norse god and his eight legged horse that he rode across the sky in a midwinter hunt. So so, again, you have to remember these intellectuals in the 1800s, they cherry picked. So they drew from existing traditions and then incorporated that imagery into the holiday that they were curating for the masses. So is the Amanita muscaria mushroom in there somewhere? Perhaps. Certainly the reindeer and these Siberian cultures where reindeer were so crucial to their survival and were seen as sacred animals. But I think it's an oversimplification that the story that you and I both have heard that the red and white of Santa Claus is from the mushroom and the stockings hanging by the fire is the mushrooms hanging over the fire. And, you know, the shaman climbing up and down the tentpole to bring gifts from to the family from the universe or source or God or spirit. Or it's an oversimplification, but it's it's it's in there. You know, it's it's certainly part of the imagery that they were drawing from. And what about the way that Waldorf represents, you know, I remember from my Waldorf days with the girls, like, there's a character, like, is it Krampus or something? There's a character, right, that is like bringing of this certain vibe. Yeah, so there's La Perchita. She was even worse than the Krampus. He was said to, I think, bring gifts for the good kids and then maybe even steal children that were bad and maybe drag them to the underworld. They were really terrifying. La Perchita was even worse. She was called the belly slitter. And if you were a bad child, she would slit your belly and take all of your intestines and your insides out. I mean, there's some really brutal... It's nice to have some punitive energy to deliver. Yeah, there's some really brutal myths that were around. And so, you know, Santa Claus knows when you are sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He knows if you've been bad or good. So they drew from those traditions as well, you know, as part of their new holiday that they were offering. Amazing. Fabricated. Yeah. Fabricated version of this holiday. Amazing. So in the sort of de-centering of this holiday, you have fallen in love with, it sounds like, a new experience of the whole season. And that these 13 nights, I want you to explain what the 13 nights mean for you and sort of more generally. And have found that there's like a way to relate to the entire year through the lens of this season. season. And you said this initially, that we all feel there's something important, right? There's something deep, there's something even sacred about this transitionary period, these short days, and this kind of hibernation imperative. So yeah, tell us about the Holy Nights as another way to experience this moment. Yeah. So for me, just more and more, one of my underlying kind of core beliefs and philosophies is that the more we align with nature, the more we uncover our own highest human potential. And as again, as I already said, that can be in really simple ways, you know, just getting outside to get the sun on your skin and in your eyes, checking out the phase of the moon at night, not on your phone, but by actually stepping out, looking at the sky, you know, eating seasonally, whatever it is, all these simple ways. But this particular practice just supports us in tuning into the season of darkness. And so what do we notice if we take a look around during the winter solstice season, the holiday season, the trees have dropped their leaves. Animals are slowing down or hibernating. Plants and grasses have often receded back into the earth, right? Seeds have descended deep into the soil. And, you know, everything is kind of drawing inward or conserving energy. And then yet here we are in the northern hemisphere, shopping compulsively, overindulging in sugar and alcohol, which is taxing the body as opposed to conserving energy, jam packing our calendars. It is the busiest time of year for most people flooding our lawns with LED lights, which is just like a slap in the face to the darkness. You know, like, no, it will not be dark. You know, we will not dive into the darkness. So it's this opportunity to just notice that and to also bring yourself into a much more inward state of being. And the structure of the practice is really sweet and playful, can be. You know, you can make it as profound and deep as you want. You could crawl into a cave for 13 days or you can keep it light and playful. Everybody can make it their own. That's something that I love about this practice. But it is 13 days long. And the number 13 actually was originally associated with the goddess and the divine feminine because we have 13 moon cycles in the year and therefore 13 female fertility cycles. And so it was the number that represented and honored the divine feminine. And then again, the Roman Catholic Church came in with their campaign to destroy and erase all the goddess worship. And so the number 13 became bad luck and creepy and, you know, associated with darkness and evil. And and now we have cruise ships with no 13th room and whole cities with no 13th Avenue. And the Empire State Building has no 13th floor, you know, and most people don't even recognize why or Friday the 13th. And in fact, in Chile, where I lived for a year, it was Tuesday the 13th, which is random. But, you know, all around the world, we have this superstition about the number 13. So originally a practice like this, and this is a modern take on this ancient nature-based wisdom and worship, right? So originally a practice like this would have been done with the 13 moons. And yet most of us live by a 12-month calendar. And so it's been reimagined to make sense for us and to make it work. So each of the 13 days corresponds to a month in the coming year, with the exception of the first day or 24-hour cycle, which is a reflection of the entire cycle to come. So the way that I think about it is as above, so below, as without, so within. Again, that light is beginning to stream back in, right? On the first day of the practice is the day when the sun begins to move again on that third day after the solstice. And it's as if we're catching the tip of the fractal that's going to continue to unfold throughout the remainder of the year. So we are doing two things. The first thing we're doing is receiving. We are receiving download. We're receiving. We're capturing that first bit of the fractal. And so what does that look like? It just looks like simply paying attention. So getting present, being mindful, noticing what's going on in the external world all around you, all the random things that are happening, as well as what's happening internally, your thoughts, your emotions, and everything else. And you're writing that all down in a journal, in addition to drawing an oracle card each night. So some people just draw the oracle cards. That's enough. Some people get really into the journaling. Again, you can make it your own. And if you have children you know they not going to be journaling when they younger It just kind of fun to look at the cards and to maybe you know you not even reading them probably the whole explanation because as you know they kind of long and deep And so maybe you're just pulling out a sentence or two that or summarizing for your child something that they can connect with. You know, for a few years now, I've been using a flower remedy set by Lotus Way called Sacred Awareness. I use the mist on my face, the oil as a perfume. It smells so good. and the elixir in my matcha. You may have heard me speaking about how I've been maturing my inner caretaker, rescuer, and savior, and really seeing the shadow in my desire to change the world and be the perfect, holistic mama. With the support of this remedy set, I've seen deep changes and liberation from controlling, anxious, martyry energy inside of me and permission to be a different kind of activist. So if you're curious about what remedy could subtly and powerfully shift you into deeper, more coherent energetic states, head to LotusWay.com and use the code Kelly15 for 15% off. The link is in show notes for you. And there's three different types of cards because there's nothing worse. Again, because I come from, you know, I was a hardcore atheist, scientism practitioner for many, many years. And there's no bigger eye roll that I have than when, you know, I see these like cards, you know, that my friends have or whatever. And it'll be like, you know, today is the day that you find the full expansion of yourself and you let go of what no longer serves you. There's no tropes. It's extremely deep. And so there's three categories, right? So there's, I don't know if you would count, gems, flora like plants, and animals. Oh my gosh, the animals are so amazing. Yeah, so in that first night, you draw one of each, right? And those are sort of your themes to think about as you make it go through the year, the cycle of seasons, winter, spring, summer, fall. And then each of the following nights, you're just drawing one card that gives you kind of further insight. It helps you almost reset every month. Every month as I go through the year, I sort of take a look at the month that's gone by. Was there any synchronicity there? What lined up? And then I take a look. Okay, now I'm working with Rabbit. All right. Okay, what's this theme all about? And it just helps you get a little bit more conscious about what's going on in your life. So that's the receive bit, is the oracle cards, the journaling, the getting present, right? And the second piece, because it's co-creation, is planting your dream seeds. What do you want for the coming cycle? And rather than just writing down your New Year's list of resolutions, this practice is like resolutions on steroids because you're actually doing those things during this 13-day window. So if you want to, whatever it is, cook more, meditate more, hula hoop more, it doesn't matter. You're making sure that you do those activities during the 13 nights. if you want a certain person in your life, make sure you reach out to them, whether it's a text or an email or a phone call, or you're actually making space to hang out, you know, so, so you are giving a real physical imprint to this 13 day window of time that I swear after it's now been, this will be my 17th year practicing, it just gets swept right into your future, like it's riding on a riptide of energy in a way that makes you laugh out loud, you know, goosebump inducing, it just blows your mind year after year, the synchronicities that tumble out of your journal or the way the cards that you drew line up with your life and help you just, yeah, your dreams, so many prophetic dreams, you know, so it's wild. It's really wild. It's, it helps you concretize and build your faith and the unseen world of energy and spirit or whatever, you know, whether that's God or source or the quantum field, however you think of that something greater. It's just there's the synchronicities year after year. You cannot deny that there's some greater magic and order going on here and that we have the opportunity to consciously step into that dance and to consciously co-create. And it gets more magical and more delightful every year. So amazing. I have I write this would be my third year practicing with your deck and I have it all written out on one page of the front of, I'm not a big journaler, to be honest, but I do it this way very succinctly, right? Like, so each month, right? Because just in case people didn't hear it quite clearly. So each day that you're pulling a card corresponds with a month in the following quote unquote calendar year, right? So that you can, I can look at my February and any notable things that went down that day or that I dreamt. And I can look at the card that I pulled in February of the next year. Right. I'm not explaining it very clearly. I need to get better at this because I'm like such an ambassador. So for instance, there was one year where, so fast forward, I've done the Holy Nights back during the winter solstice season. And fast forward to July, I'm at the grocery store and I get a call from a really good friend, you know, and and he lives in North Carolina. I lived in Colorado at the time. And he says, I'm I'm coming from Wyoming. I'm dry on my way to DIA. Are you and your family around? Can we get together for dinner? Oh, my gosh, of course. He comes over. We have this wonderful meal together. It's it's just we always have a great connection. And and then he left and went on his way to the airport. and I just had to have this nagging thought like, did I write something in my Sacred Night journal about Tommy last year? And I go and I grab my journal and I flip through open to the Sacred Night that corresponds to the month of July, which would be the eighth Sacred Night. And there in my journal, I'd had a dream that night. And I wrote down these exact words, a surprise visit from Tommy, so much kindness and connection there. And wow, I mean, What do you do with that? You know, so so that's one of those faith building moments where I just go, OK, there's a greater magic here. There's there's something deeper going on. And at the very least, this practice, like I said, builds and concretizes your faith in the unseen. And so so things like that. And then, you know, the year of my divorce, I drew star sapphire as my yearly overarching mineral card. and that's all about relationship heating up in either a positive or negative way depending on how you channel it and the nature of reflection within our relationships and how what we're seeing in somebody else is always reflecting back to us some part of our inner being, you know, and wow, if that wasn't a very timely and powerful dose of medicine, you know, the year that I'm getting divorced. So like I said, the magic just deepens every year and continues to bring you back to a place of wonder. And it's probably important to mention that there isn't any nocebic hexing potential. You know what? I was very aware of that when I wrote the book. I really intentionally did not want to nocebo anyone. And so every single card, for those, if anyone's unaware of, the placebo effect would be the positive effects that your mind can have on your body and your life really, when you're when you have a positive belief. And likewise, we can do the same thing. We can hex ourselves with a negative belief, right, and actually see that negative belief play out in our bodies and or our life. And there's been all kinds of studies done on that. So so so I was very aware of that. And I did not want to, you know, curse anyone with, oh, my gosh, my my October is going to be horrendous because I drew this terrible card. So a lot of the cards are very positive in nature. And and then there are cards where I do talk about maybe some challenge, but here's the gift within that challenge. And it's always got a positive spin on it. There is one card that really freaks people out. And I get emails about it every year. People are in a panic because they've drawn the elder card. Have you come across that one? No, I haven't drawn that one. Okay. Well, again, it was so unintentional on my part. And so I did shift the, I added to and shifted the language a little bit in the new edition because it was not my intention to freak people out. And yet it's really ironic that that was the response because the whole card is about the crone and the full cycle of life and the facts that, you know, from the moment we're born, the only thing that we know for certain is that we're going to die. And, you know, that when we live into that mortality, we cease to take for granted this incredible life that we're moving through. And it was really more about just gratitude and not taking this life for granted. And so there was a lot of that in the elder card and the elderberry and the elder tree. And there was an old myth that there was an old woman who lives in the elder tree and she was the representation of the crone. And so, man, every year I get people emailing or calling, oh, my gosh, I drew this card. Like, am I going to die? Very concrete. Yeah. And so my response is always like, you know, well, nobody has died yet because I always ask them to please call me after the month is over and let me know how it went. And inevitably, they've all said, you know, it's incredible. I realized that this this part or this season of my life was ending and there was a rebirth that was happening or and or I just, you know, it was so enlivening to to live in that way where you're you're, you know, living into your mortality. recognizing your mortality and, and, and yeah, just being grateful for this one incredible individual and unique life that we are living. So amazing. So I shifted it a little bit. I know most people listening understand, you know, what I refer to as the maybe principle, which is that like seemingly good things come from bad and seemingly bad things can come from good, right? like that uncertainty and the lightness of the grip on our attachment, you know, to whatever we imagine is going to give us that coveted feeling. So I am so, so grateful for the way that this has, this practice has, it's almost like made a, like a fun game. I don't want to be diminishing, but like game out of, but yes, yes, it's, that's what I love about it is it's, It's playful and it's delightful and then yet it's profound. So it's sneaky in that way. Yeah, and it's such a beautiful complement to the observation, if not just acknowledgement of the solstice. And, you know, even, of course, if you are a Christmas girly, you know, this is a way because the first night is Christmas Eve, right? this is a way to really bring a dimensionality to the ensuing nights that otherwise I think for a lot of people who are in the commercial swirl there's I imagine probably I mean I remember even when I was like younger there's like a letdown feeling and then you're just like waiting for New Year's Eve and that like weird dead zone it's like it's the Christmas hangover because this season this season was originally in, in, in a lot of cultures, it was, it was like a two week period or a 13 day period somewhere in and around there, even a month long in some cultures. So, so yeah, so I call that the Christmas hangover. Yeah. So let's, let's not participate in that. And we are airy. Oh, can I really quickly add that they, that it doesn't have to be either or, you know, like you can still, you can still maintain your current traditions. And in fact, like we still do the Christmas tree. My daughter loves our ornament collection that, you know, a lot of it passed down from my grandmother. If you have traditions that are nourishing to you and do fill you up, by all means, continue. Right. And you can you can add this in and it will just add another layer of depth and meaning for you. Yeah, totally. Totally. We are airing this so that folks have time to get the deck in order to observe this season. Of course, if you're listening to this at any other time in the year, you know, I always I just, you own it and then you bring it out. And you could bring it out, as you said, every month, right? So you can revisit the card that you pulled representing the month that you're about to start. Let's say you're going to check on that card March 1st. You go in and you reread it. So there's like touchstones throughout the year, but you bring it out primarily in this season. And I believe you offer kind of live support for the experience also, right? Yes, I did not originally. I was a little resistant to that because I was like, I wrote the book. Go do the damn thing. What more do you want from me? I know. Lore. I finally said yes. And so I do guide an online group. And this year is the first year where we're actually going to, we'll do the 13 nights together. We gather live, I think, four times during the sacred nights. And I have prerecorded videos. It's a combination of the sacred nights and also Qigong practice, which is my world. So I do incorporate some of the Qigong. So if you're not interested in that, it might not be for you. And then we are going to meet up once a month at the beginning on the first of each month throughout the remainder of the year. It'll be a whole year long 13 Sacred Nights guided experience. Yeah. And, you know, we've talked about your deck this entire conversation, but you are a neurogenic Qigong practitioner. And that is, like you said, it's your world. It's your very specific offering. And that's like a whole other dimension of what you bring in terms of consciousness and awareness around body, mind, spirit connection. And so what a beautiful thing to weave together, you know, these two worlds. That is an amazing offering. I am very excited about it myself. Yeah, thank you. So we will make sure that everybody has all the links to know where to reach you and access you and certainly get a hold of the deck, which is just like a must try. Must try once and then you'll be hooked. So I'm very grateful for your creativity and your work and now your like historical perspectives that you layer in. I mean, there's just so much that you're offering to to shift our paradigm around the experience of holidays and the so-called calendar year. And I'm just very grateful. Thank you. Yeah, well, it's I'm so happy to be connected. And, you know, we we circle in a lot of the same friend groups. And there's just so there's so much brilliant creativity that's bubbling up right now. and it gives me hope and faith and humanity. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Amazing. Thanks, Lara. you