102: Dr. Joe Dispenza: How to Eliminate ANXIETY And Stop Negative Thoughts Using Your Brain

When the drugs or the chemo or the radiation or the surgeries or the diets don't work, this is when a lot of people start investigating, what am I going to do? Is there another way? I saw a scan. She literally regrew 10 centimeters of that tissue that was physically removed. What that says is that the human body has the innate capacity to regenerate itself at any age if it's given the right information. Science and spirituality to inspire personal transformation. Joe Dispenza. Joe Dispenza. Joe Dispenza, prominent figure in the field. We have had people with stage four cancer that metastasize to their bones and to all their organs have no evidence of cancer. So the first step to change is becoming so conscious of your unconscious thoughts that you don't go unconscious to them. We become addicted to the life we don't even like. When you're inside the jar, you can't read the label. So we've got to get you outside the jar. Hi, and welcome back to Reclamation Radio. I am Dr. Kelly Brogan. And today I have the one, the only Dr. Joe Dispenza. If somehow you are not familiar with his groundbreaking work, he is a New York Times bestselling author, researcher, lecturer, and corporate consultant. And he has developed a practical formula to help people to change their lives and has outcomes that are history-making and now more and more scientifically quantified and studied. And I'm an outcomes girlie, so this conversation is super, super, super important and exciting to me. So we will delve into the fact that you can indeed grow back your body tissues, in case you're wondering. We'll also look at the role of emotions in disrupting and evolving and transforming the identity that has become addicted to your struggles. We will look at the number one reason why we don't change. So essentially, we're going to look at how it is that we can change our bodies, our beliefs, our personalities, and our potential. I'm not sure there's a subject that is more essential to explore. So enjoy this. Welcome, Joe, to this show. I'm so happy to be with you. It's really such an honor. And there are so, so many different topics that I could pick your brain about and explore with you. But there's one in particular I want to focus on during this hour, and it is the nature of change. And I would argue that you are one of the world's experts in this particular topic. And just for a bit of context, when I began to focus on health transformation, not only in my personal life, but in my clinical career, I became totally obsessed with outcomes. And you could say maybe it was an extension of my materialist worldview and my sort of very concrete, you know, logical, rational mind. I don't know. But I decided that knowing what is possible is an essential ingredient in the what I would call the permission to want that thing for others. Right. So. I would often like invoke your outcomes, my mentor, Dr. Nicholas Gonzalez's outcomes, and eventually my own, as a way of opening up this permission field for others so that they could want something that maybe they wouldn't have imagined was even available or possible before this kind of a share, before these testimonials, before these sometimes scientifically published proofs. But over time, I also began to understand that changing your story, changing your concept of yourself, your identity, changing your mind, changing your body, it's not just about consciously wanting it. So there's more to the story and there are even these subterranean vectors of influence. So today I want to focus on the anatomy of change. So why we don't and how we can. And I want to really just start with a bang. I want to ask you, if you could share to date, what are some of the most unbelievable outcomes that, and I say unbelievable, you know, sort of tongue in cheek, right, to the average lay person, what are some of the most unbelievable outcomes that you have come across, right? What are the examples that have expanded even your personal worldview around what is possible? Sure. I mean, I'd like to respond to just a few things that you said before I talk about something that's changed me, just in some of the things I've witnessed. First of all, I do think people do the best with what they think is available. And if they don't know if there's something that they could use in some way or that there's a possibility, they make the same choice. And I think that's kind of what a lot of people do when it comes to their health care. But when the drugs or the chemo or the radiation or the surgeries or the diets don't work, this is when people really, a lot of people start investigating, what am I going to do? Is there another way? And the exploration, the idea that there's another way or another possibility causes them to change their belief in what's possible. And one of the fundamental ways that we discovered that helps people do that is knowledge and information. And it's really important for people to understand that there may be another possibility that they were just unaware of. OK, so if that knowledge then is presented to them in a credible way that's scientific and easy to understand, the science enhances their belief in what's possible and removes their doubt. If you see a testimonial of someone who stands up on the stage in front of, large audience of people and talks about how they were diagnosed with stage four cancer. And they spent the last year changing the way they thought, the way they acted and the way they felt. And lo and behold, their body began to respond to their changes. When someone does that, it's a four minute mile. And everybody in the audience is seeing evidence. They're seeing the truth. They're seeing the example of truth right in front of them. And invariably, somebody in the audience will look at that person and say, she doesn't look very vegan. She doesn't look ketogenic. She doesn't look very young or very fit, or she doesn't dress as her. She just looks like an average person. And when you see that and you're witnessing a story like that, the person in the audience with a similar health condition identifies with that person. And now their belief in what's possible and their credence in that outcome is actually enhanced. Now, I just want to be really clear that that's not enough. I mean, because we discovered that people do their meditations in this work not to heal. They do their meditations to change. And we understand when they change, they'll heal. And I think when people stand on the stage and tell their story, it's like the four-minute mile. I believe that it breaks a certain level of consciousness or unconsciousness to what's possible. And now the collective is becoming aware of possibility. So to what extent that I've seen at work has blown my mind. And I'll tell you a story that just happened recently in our 10-day event in Cancun in December, which was a fabulous event. And I never planned on doing a 10-day event. It's just people ask, can we do seven days? We do 10 days. And we've got great data of change that takes place in most people when they immerse themselves in seven days of transformation. So the idea was, let's go 10 and let's see if the data is even more exciting and and the community asked for it. Anyway, they brought a lady backstage who was diagnosed with colorectal cancer. And the typical protocol for that is, you know, you remove that part of the body. So they surgically removed her rectum in part of her colon. And when you lose that part of your body, you lose bowel control. You lose your dignity. You can't be more than 10 feet from a restroom. You're spending the majority of time there. She had a bag. She couldn't sleep. She got depressed. She got suicidal. And the doctors told her, you know, at your age, you're going to have to learn to live with this. Now, I know this is crazy for your audience, and it's crazy for me, too, because what I witnessed on the stage that day changed me forever. And so her whole goal was to be able to grow part of her rectum and colon back. Now, if you physically take tissue away and it's no longer there, it's not in the current belief paradigm that you can regenerate tissue. And so she started her work, her inner work. And after a period of time, she was able to do a whole meditation without sitting on the toilet or getting up and breaking and going to the toilet. And then she started noticing that those periods got a little bit longer. And that's all she needed. right? Because as soon as you notice that change, something changes. You're noticing what you're doing is creating that. So you do more of it and you do it with greater intention. So she came to a week-long retreat a few years ago, maybe a year and a half ago. And of course, this is a big deal for her because she hasn't left her house. And she went through every single lecture and every single meditation during that week long without having to use the restroom. Again, another big change. She goes to the doctor after that event and she has five centimeters of her rectum and colon growing back. And then she came to the event in December in Cancun. And I saw the scan. She literally regrew 10 centimeters of that tissue that was physically removed. She lost nine and she grew back 10. I saw the scan. It was juvenile, opalescent, vascular, young, regenerated tissue. It wasn't scar tissue. It was a brand new tissue. And she changed her life. And what that says is that the human body has the innate capacity to regenerate itself at any age if it's given the right information. Now, that's not part of how we're programmed. We're programmed into something completely different. And up until my personal observation of that, it would have been a stretch for me like, oh, yeah, maybe. But like the salamander, like the octopus, like the starfish, somehow she regenerated tissue. And again, we have to change our belief in what's possible. So we have people that have grown back thyroids. We have had people with stage four cancer that metastasized to their bones and to all their organs have no evidence of cancer. It has become quite the exploration for me in stretching my own personal belief. That is extraordinary and totally consistent with what I have come to imagine is possible. I wonder, did she focus intentionality on that or was it just a secondary effect of what? No, she was intentional. She told the surgeon, she said, I want to grow my tissue back. And the surgeon, of course, said, you know, that's not possible or I don't believe it is. But her husband said, I believe you can do it. And she never missed a day. And so when she got in the right state of mind and body, kind of this altered state that we teach, you know, the door between the conscious mind and the subconscious mind is opened up to information. You got to be able to change your brainwaves to do that. So whatever she has the intention that she's imagining, and she can make that thought more real than anything else, that intention acts as information that begins to signal the autonomic nervous system, which controls and coordinates all other systems to get busy to begin to biologically change the body to reflect the information it's receiving. And you can't do that in fear. You can't do that in frustration. You can't do that in anger. That information doesn't make it in. She has to change her emotional state as well. So she had all the reasons in the world in the beginning of her journey to feel discouraged, to feel victimized, to feel fearful, and she changed her emotional state. And by beginning to feel that emotion, the body could receive that information. So you have to, in this case, combine a clear intention. That's the information. Regulate your brain states, open the door, and then move the body into an elevated emotion that tends to be more heart-centered. And when we're feeling the emotion of the future before it happens, The body is the unconscious mind. It's so objective, it doesn't know the difference between the real life experience that's creating that emotion and the emotion that person's creating by thought alone. The body's believing it's living in a new environment. And if the environment signals the gene, and it does, and the end product of an experience in the environment is an emotion, she's literally signaling genes ahead of the environment. And genes make proteins. And proteins are responsible for the structure and function of the body. and you could literally begin, if you did it consistently, to begin to regenerate new tissue. And I'm sure she had a few dark nights, but she never stopped believing that she could do it. And the belief in the idea that she could was what drove her every day to apply and do something with it. So there's a way that we alter a person's state that allows them to begin to program their autonomic nervous system. I've been very interested in sort of the upside of struggle and from a psycho-emotional perspective. Do you think that chronic illness is synonymous with an identity, that there is some attachment that then gets loosened through this emotional access to a new state of being that can program the body where a new identity can be assumed? You know, what do you imagine? I'm sure this is difficult to summarize, but what do you imagine is driving these states of chronic illness, especially in cases like this where, you know, she'd been living for some time with an entirely new way of being in her body that was extremely limited? So more than 95% of people that walk into a doctor's office, that walk in for chronic health conditions, they're walking in because of lifestyle or behaviors or choices. 95% of all diseases or chronic health conditions are lifestyle based, very small percentage are genetic. So then in order to change a chronic health condition, you got to change your lifestyle. But if people, 90% of their thoughts are the same thoughts as the day before, and the same thoughts lead to the same choices, and the same choices lead to the same behaviors, and the same behaviors create the same experiences. And by craving the same experiences, they produce the same feelings and emotions, and those same emotions influence the very same thought. Their biology, their neurocircuitry, their neurochemistry, their hormones, their gene expression stays the same because they're staying the same. And throw in the hormones of stress, which creates autonomic dysregulation, moves us out of homeostasis, moves us out of balance, moves us into emergency mode. Feel those emotions that are correlated with anger and aggression and hatred and judgment and fear and anxiety and insecurity and hopelessness and powerlessness and depression and guilt and shame. you know, those emotions that actually down-regulate genes and create disease. And the person's headed for a genetic destiny. So a crisis or a trauma or a diagnosis a disease those are going to wake the person up and they going to realize that they got to do something right And so if you keep thinking the same way you keep acting the same way and you keep feeling the same way, how you think, how you act and how you feel is called your personality. And your personality is intimately connected to your personal reality. The principle of neuroscience that says that nerve cells that fire together, wire together, keep thinking the same way, keep making the same choices, keep doing the same things, Keep creating the same experiences that stamp the same networks of neurons and the same patterns, all for the familiar feeling called you. Do that for five years on end. Now, 95 percent of the personality, the identity of that person is a set of hardwired attitudes, beliefs and perceptions, automatic habits and behaviors and unconscious emotional reactions and responses. 95% is operating automatically behind the scenes of our awareness. So our personality is literally programmed. Okay, well, that makes sense. So then that personality, that's creating a personal reality. If I want to change my personal reality, I have to change my personality. And then the fundamental question is, why is it so hard to change? Well, it's so hard to change as we started this conversation is because 95% of who we are has been programmed. So the first step to change is becoming so conscious of your unconscious thoughts that you don't go unconscious to them again in your day. And the hardest part about change is no longer making the same choice. And when you decide to make a different choice, get ready. It's going to feel uncomfortable. It's going to feel unfamiliar. There's going to be a lot of uncertainty, a lot of unpredictability. And most people just return back to the same choice because it feels good. And if you're going to really change, you're going to have to pay attention to how you speak and all the habits that keep you behaving as if you're in your past. You'd have to avoid certain experiences with certain people and certain conditions in your life. We've all done this. I need a break. Get away from my environment. And you've got to decide that there's this feeling of anger, there's a feeling of hatred, there's a feeling of frustration, there's a feeling of resentment. Is this loving to me? I mean, is this working for me? And those feelings or emotions are a record of the past, right? So the word meditation means to become familiar with. So you've got to become so familiar with, so conscious of your unconscious self that you don't go unconscious to yourself in your waking day. So the person who has a chronic health condition, they have to change their personality. And it's the overcoming process that has to be combined with the becoming process. The belief is just a thought we keep thinking over and over again. And the belief is that you can't heal. Well, that's your belief. Well, if you want to truly change, you've got to change that belief. And it's not easy because you've got to remember to think differently. You got to keep remembering to think differently over and over again so that nerve cells that fire together begin to wire together. And that thought is becoming hardware in your brain. Keep repeating it. Keep with keep assigning meaning that if I have this intention and with attention, I keep thinking this way. Sooner or later will be the new voice in my head. OK, how am I going to behave with my ex, with my coworkers, with my children? if I'm truly going to heal my health condition, I can't behave in the same way. I can't react in the same way. Let me close my eyes and rehearse in my mind how I'm going to be with my coworker that I resent because this resentment is making me sick. Okay. So now all of a sudden becomes super practical. So the act of closing your eyes and rehearsing an act, when you're truly present, the brain does not know the difference between the real life experiencing and what you're imagining. The brain is looking like you already did it. Looks like the experience has already happened. There's been great research on this. Now the brain is no longer a record of the past. Actually, it's a map to the future. So you're installing hardware and keep remembering to behave this way. Your behaviors will match your intentions and you'll do something differently. And that different choice and that different act will create a new experience. And then what is the emotion that is loving to you. Let's practice feeling this emotion. So much if I have to practice in my meditation to feel this way over and over again so I can feel this way on command and start opening my heart. If a person does it over and over again, they'll become familiar with that new emotional state. They'll become familiar with a new way of thinking and a new way of acting. So most people try to create a new personal reality by being the same personality and it doesn't work. We literally have to become someone else. So whether it's health or wealth or love or a mystical experience, if this is your vision of the future, this is your goal, and you're this person here, there's no way you're going to arrive at this vision or this goal unless you change enough times to actually become that person. And so, as I said, people do the work really to understand that, oh my God, the number one thing I'm going to do is I'm not going to work on healing. I'm going to work on getting back into homeostasis, like getting back in the balance because I've mismanaged my emotions. I've been in survival. I've been in stress. I've been out of balance. So I'm not going to react. I'm going to practice not reacting. I'm going to practice not thinking this way. And that's diving into that 95% to change. And so going from the old self to the new self, there is a neurological, there is a biological, there's a chemical, there's a hormonal genetic death of the old self that does not feel good because a part of us is actually dying. Give people the understanding of that and teach them how to change. And we spend a lot of time talking about what it means to change. To change is to be greater than the conditions in your environment. To be able to think, act, and feel differently in your life and not let any person or circumstance or any condition in your life influence the way you're thinking or feeling, like that person's making me feel bad. That would make us a victim to our environment. To change is to be greater than the habits that we create by doing the same thing and thinking the same thing and feeling the same way over and over again. And to overcome the emotions that keep us connected to the past that have been conditioned into the body. So to change is to be greater than your body, to be greater than the program that wants you to get up and stay on the autopilot and be greater than the emotions that keep siphoning our attention into the past and the change is to be greater than time. That means then you can't live in the predictable future or the familiar past. You've got to master the present moment. And so we teach people that and you give them opportunities to apply it, just like learning anything else, whether you're learning how to dance the salsa or you're learning how to ski or you're learning how to crochet or learning how to hit a golf ball. If you keep practicing, it's going to get easier for you. And that's what we want to do. We want to make it practical for people. So chronic health conditions require a lifestyle change. And we discovered that when people change, for the most part, their health changes. And you can say to that person, where's the cancer? Where's the chronic health condition? They'll say, oh, it's in the other person. It's in the old person. I'm literally somebody else. So CMOS has become quite a thing lately. And I love myself a therapeutic food over a supplement any day. But there's sea moss and then there's my fave, samadhi sea moss. So most people don't realize that mineral deficiency is one of the biggest drivers of imbalance, whether you're experiencing that as fatigue or weight gain or cravings. So unless you're growing your own food, it doesn't contain almost by definition the spectrum of minerals that our ancestors enjoyed. So that's why I am excited about samadhi sea moss. It's not your typical store-bought rope-farm sea moss. It's 100% wild and it's harvested by Caribbean divers from super clean waters, ensuring purity and also ecological respect. It contains over 90 bioavailable minerals and vitamins, many of which are hard to get even in a very high quality diet. Plus, it's a natural collagen booster and prebiotic, making it an effortless way to support the gut, your skin and your overall vitality. So I take one to two tablespoons a day in warm water that I also put a little bit of sea salt in and lime or lemon. Key lime is actually my favorite. And I noticed a shift in my digestion after just a week. The best part is that it tastes like nothing, which makes it super easy to add to your routine. So if you want to experience the benefits yourself, Samadhi is offering 10% off with the code Kelly10. Check out the link in show notes and enjoy. I love how you talk about the role of emotional arousal because the prioritization of stimulus and the kind of surrogate life force that we get access to when we are in conflict or tension or frustration, resentment, disappointment, dramas becomes at some point, I think, less compelling than other emotional states. As I've studied the change that I've witnessed in my clinical years, I always noticed that the movement in the direction of change was accompanied by a sense of relief that wasn't available when the change was less actionable. Meaning like you will only change when it feels like a new state that you value, right, to move in the direction of that. So when you talk about the willful invocation of these emotional states, you're talking about developing a level of intimacy and maybe even like mastery over the emotional moment that we're having. So how does this play into what we were talking about before I started recording, the addictions that we have to our habits of struggle? I was telling you that the past couple of years for me have been marked by a titration into peace and stability and harmony and ease. And there's definitely a part of me that misses the intense somatic arousal that I would have when I would have drama or I was dealing with many different aspects of addiction from work to love. And the quiet has been something that I needed to expand my capacity to hold. So when you talk to people about the addiction that we have to the habit of being ourselves, like this old personality that wants to be shed, is awareness an important first step to just watch that, oh, wow, I got that stressful email and now my heart is racing and I feel flushed with energy. And there might be some aspect of this that I actually am really into in order to begin to value another state that could be willfully invoked even in the absence of like a ready stimulus, like a real life stimulus in that person's life. Yeah. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about this addiction because I invoke your concepts all the time when I talk to people about why they're stuck, about the upside of staying the same and the downside of changing, that it has a lot to do with these reward cycles that we associate with our struggles, right? Yeah, so great conversation. Well, the arousal that's created when you move into emergency mode, when you perceive a threat or danger in your environment, when you anticipate the worst case scenario in your life, when you can't control something, you can't predict something. Yeah, we signal the emergency system, the fight or flight nervous system, and that is an arousal. And the arousal is a rush of energy. And the rush of energy is giving the body of the resources, it's tapping its resources so it can outrun a predator. It could fight, could hide, it could survive in some way. Stay alive is the name of the game. What most people don't understand is that that arousal then becomes like an addiction, a rush of energy. And people use the problems and conditions in their life to reaffirm their addiction to that emotion. And it's physiological. They need the bad job. They need the bad relationship. They need the drama to give them a rush of energy. And so in a sense, we become addicted to the life we don't even like. And we can turn on that stress response just by thinking about our problems, which means then we can become addicted to our own thoughts. And the very thoughts that we're thinking is causing the body to move and the brain move out of balance. But the rush of adrenaline, the rush and the arousal that's created for the body becomes so habituated or addictive that they keep the stress response turned on for an extended period of time. And if you turn on the stress response and you can't turn it off, now you're headed for a disease because the body can't live in emergency mode. It's tapping all of its resources. Okay, so then is there anything wrong with emotionally reacting? No, I emotionally react all the time. The question is how long? I mean, those chemicals physiologically last from 90 seconds to two minutes in the body. So if you're keeping those chemicals going for an extended period of time, then it's called an addiction because an addiction is something that you think you can't stop. Or an addiction is knowing that something is not good for you and you're doing it anyway. Well, most people don't think that, oh my God, this emotion that I'm feeling justified or not is actually harming nobody else but me. In that moment, that person is getting the rush of adrenaline and it's signaling a primitive survival system that they're not going to want to get beyond their fear or their anger or their aggression or their pain in that moment because when the signal is switched on, you're concerned about three things. You're concerned about everything in your environment. The senses are heightened. We narrow our focus on the material world. It's all about what's going on out there. The rush of adrenaline causes us to feel our bodies. It gives us energy. And the rush in survival causes us to try to predict the future based on the past. So then all of our attention is on our body, our environment, and time. And to change is to be greater than your body, to be greater than your environment, and to be greater than time, which means when we're under stress, it's really hard to change. It doesn't feel good to change. It's not a time to change. It's time to run, fight, and hide. Okay? So tell a person that the emotions that they're feeling that are connected to their past are not serving them, and they're addicted to it. And I want you to know, just like any addiction, you're going to go through cravings, And you're going to go through withdrawals. And you probably had some bad trips and overdoses. And now the body has been conditioned emotionally, either by thought and feeling, by image and emotion, by stimulus and response. The trauma is just not in the brain now. The trauma of the emotion is stored in the body. The body is literally anchored to the past. And it's saying, I don't want to go to the future because I can't predict it. If I can't predict it, it's the unknown. I want to stay in the familiar territory. All right, tell the person that those emotions don't serve them. They actually downregulate genes and create disease. And that emotions cause them to behave as if they're in their past and believe in their past. And there's another way to do it. And they start realizing, oh, my God, OK, game on now. Put them in a meditation and have them become conscious of I can't. It's too hard. I'm on a quit. It's taking too long. You know, all of that. and sit there and become conscious of those unconscious thoughts that sneak by your awareness all day long, unchecked or unnoticed. And know thyself. Become so conscious of that unconscious thoughts that you would never think that way again. And it takes an enormous amount of awareness, Kelly. It takes an enormous amount of energy too, though, because most people give up and say, I can change And that their belief And that is not conscious or it too hard or whatever But what on the other side of that thought Someone sits past that We discovered that when the brain changes the most If your body programmed to get up and do something or you complain or you blame or you make excuses you feel sorry for yourself and you want to be happy that not a happy person That's an unhappy person. Have a person go, oh, my God, I complain all the time. I must be tormenting my body. Okay, that's nuts. I'm not going to be happy. I got to break that habit. And a habit is an unconscious process. And so the only way you're going to get really good at it is becoming conscious and not going unconscious. And how many times do we have to forget until we stop forgetting and start remembering? OK, so now I know the emotion is addictive. I'm addicted to frustration. I'm addicted to resentment. I'm addicted to impatience, whatever. Have the person sit in the meditation and watch the body get aroused, get worked up, get frustrated. And instead of saying, I can't do this, be curious on what's on the other side of that emotion. and teach them how to lower the volume to that emotion and bring the body back into the present moment and you are training an animal. And if you keep training the animal, if you keep training the body to get into that present moment and the present moment is the unknown, have it relax into the unknown. When you're executing a will that's greater than the program, when you're executing a mind that's greater than the body mind, that act of intention and will, the act of doing that does take an enormous amount of awareness and enormous amount of energy, But if you stick with it, we've discovered this thousands of times. Sooner or later, the body surrenders to a new mind. And when that happens, there's a liberation of energy. We go from particle to wave. The emotion that's stored in the body that keeps the body in the past is being liberated. And the body is no longer living in the past because that person who's addicted to that emotion, the body's believing it's living in the same environmental condition. The environment signals the gene. Now they're headed for genetic destiny. Okay, when the body finally can surrender into the present moment and there's a liberation, energy naturally moves into our hearts. We've discovered it. The body is out of those survival centers. And when it moves into the heart, what it does is it tells the brain. There's a wave of energy that moves to the brain when the heart opens up and it tells the brain the trauma is over, the past is over, the event is over. And it resets the baseline for that trauma. And the body's literally moved out of the past into the present moment. and the person breaks that addiction to that emotion. And the side effect of that is called joy. The absence of that addiction that's keeping the body in survival, the body can actually relax, and energy moves into the heart, and we're more grateful, and we're more appreciative, and we're more kind, and we're more caring, more loving. It's a whole different consciousness. So the question is, is it worth the effort? And I believe it is. I think I've seen it in all sizes, all ages. We have eight-year-old children that come to a week-long event. We have 92, 91, 94-year-old people that come. All cultures, all races, doesn't matter. You can't tell me you're too old to do this work. You can't tell me you're too sick to do this work. You can't tell me you had a brutal past. We have people that have had horrific pasts that were suicidal and were in a lot of trouble. And they overcame themselves. And they look back at their past and they say, I would never change a thing in my past. It got me to this moment I would have never changed unless I got that diagnosed. I would have never changed. So they're not victimized by the adversity in their life. They've turned that adversity into wisdom. So what I hear is that there is a role for will. There's a role for intention. There's a role for discipline and practice and the quieting into the void of the mind visualization. But I also know that, you know, invoking these elevated states of emotion is a huge part of your formula. So what would you say to somebody who is so accustomed and addicted to, which is most of us probably, to these so-called negative states that they actually can't even invoke what they imagine a positive state would feel like? Right. So many of the women that I work with, they have such a tenuous relationship to their own desire, to their own imagination and to what it might be like to actually feel the way they want to feel because they're so focused on just eliminating what it is that they don't want in their life that this cultivation of possibility, as we were talking about, is really kind of atrophied. So is it relevant, you know, if you sit down and you do a meditation and you just, you know, are trying to invoke this future that you want to imagine, but you can't even feel it? Like, is that a problem or is that something that just comes later after you quiet down enough? Like you're saying the joy is almost a consequence that it emerges. Yeah. The process of change we've discovered is unlearning and relearning. It's breaking the habit of the old self and reinventing a new self. It's stop thinking one way, start thinking another way. Stop feeling one way, start feeling another way. Stop firing and wiring certain circuits in your brain and refire and rewire. Deprogram, reprogram, lose your mind, create a new one. Unmemorize an emotion that's stored in the body, then to condition the body to a new mind, to a new emotion. In a sense, it's the overcoming and becoming process. So the process of change then when a person's getting serious and says, I don't know how to feel these emotions. There's nothing wrong with that. More than likely, they've had some past events in their life that tell them, don't open your heart, protect it. Don't get vulnerable. That's dangerous. I'm so accustomed to feeling these emotions. I can't feel any other emotions. Well, that's great. That's a good place to start. So if a person's really going to make the change, then their effort should be about overcoming that old self. That's really their effort. That's where the effort should be. The catching themselves where the mind goes unconscious and coming back. Every time they do that, it's a victory. And sooner or later, the body is literally going to acquiesce. And that's when the energy moves. In our events, the first couple days that we call getting beyond yourself, all the programs, all the thoughts, all your frustration, all your judgments, all that comes up. And people are constantly given the practice. Okay, if you've been practicing feeling victimization for the last 20 years so good that it doesn't even feel like victimization, it feels like you, then yeah, it's going to take some work because when you're inside the jar, you can't read the label. So we've got to get you outside the jar. Okay, so let's get you feeling another way. I can feel this way. Okay, let's show you the data. Okay. If you're living in fight or flight all the time, and when you're living in emergency, your breath changes. You either contract your breath or you breathe really fast. That's not good for the body, right? Okay. So we know that if you slow your breathing down, you slow your brain waves down. And if you slow your breathing down, you can convert from that fight or flight nervous system to the nervous system of relaxation, the parasympathetic. So let's breathe. Let's practice doing this. Let's work with your body. Let's retrain the animal. Okay, it's used to being vigilant. It's used to being anxious. Okay, you know that, and it's going to crave those emotions. It's going to crave wanting to feel the way. Let's train it. First two or three days, nothing happens, but we know if you put your attention on your heart, we have the data to show that you're filling a gas tank with a very low frequency. I was just looking at the data yesterday. Where I place my attention is where I place my energy. If I place enough attention here, I'm placing enough life force, then my heart could bloom pedal by pedal. Okay, what if it takes me seven days? Well, I just keep practicing. Okay, I'm gonna stop feeling guilt and start feeling gratitude. Well, I don't have anything to be grateful for. Well, let's start, let's start. So you get the person putting their attention on their heart. You get them slowing their breathing down. I talk to them. I have them practice feeling elevated emotions, not to feel it with their head, feel it with their heart. Sooner or later, that center begins to open. And then you gotta remember the feeling. You gotta keep remembering the feeling. If you keep doing it over and over again, the feeling is chemistry. And you're literally changing your chemistry by changing your feelings. Okay. So give people numerous opportunities to practice, even when they don't want to, even when they don't feel like it. Everybody else is doing it. So do it. Give them, give them numerous opportunities to overcome themselves, to get beyond themselves, give them the formula, give them the roadmap and keep giving them knowledge and information and then pushing them into the application, the personalization, the demonstration, the initiation. Sooner or later, their behavior is going to match their intentions. And when it happens, they have no experience. They understand the philosophy, the theory. The experience produces a feeling and emotion, and they start feeling more whole, or they start feeling more worthy or more grateful. Now, the body's getting new information, and the new information is emotions. And so over a course of time, a person can literally go from the old self to the new self, because when they're believing in their future, they're feeling the emotion that's associated with it. And this is so fundamentally important because when you feel the emotion of your future before it happens, you will no longer look for it. How can you look for it if it feels like it's already happened? That's when the synchronicities, the opportunities, the coincidences begin to flourish in our life. In stepping out into your life, you have to get so good at doing it with your eyes closed that you've got to do it with your eyes open. In other words, you've got to get really good at staying there in that emotional state and no person, no circumstance. will move you from it. That's like that's a victorious day, one day, one lifetime. That's when it gets to be fun. So when the person sees the fruits of their efforts in a change in their symptom in their body, they're sleeping through their night, they have more energy, they can eat more foods, their pain levels go down. That's all they need. As soon as they get that, then they know, oh my God, I'm doing something to make me feel better. So we give people a lot of knowledge and information. We build the model. They have to be able to understand it Because if they can understand it, they understand what they're doing and they understand why they're doing it. So the how gets easier. And God, we have people like we work with special ops and prisoners and Navy SEALs. I've seen some of the worst things and done some of the worst things. And they have really high PTSD. And once they if you tell a Navy SEAL, who's an elite, elite individual to open their heart, they're not going to say I can't. They're not going to say I don't know how. They're just going to sit there until they figure it out. And if I tell them when they open their heart, it resets the baseline for the trauma in their brain. They will not give up until they do it. And lo and behold, the body literally, literally is dragged out of the past. So it takes an immersive experience to do it. The point I'm trying to make is that if other people can do it, certainly you can do it. You've done the work. You've regulated your nervous system. You've reclaimed your feminine. and somehow still you're met with blank stares, dropped balls and dead bedroom energy. But you didn't sign up to be his coach, his therapist or his mother. You signed up for partnership, for a husband and a man, for devotion, for polarity. And now you may be wondering, is this just how it is? Do I just settle or do I go all Kali and burn it down? Suffocated staying, terrified of leaving. This is the trap. Reclaimed relationship is the third pass. No therapy, no ultimatums, just a new way of moving that shifts everything. If you're ready to stop commiserating and start commanding a deeper, safer, sexier bond, you'll want to join me in my upcoming masterclass, Reclaimed Relationship, on April 15th, where we'll explore how to shift your entire relational field through softness, embodiment, and the kind of energetic recalibration that invites devotion back in without needing to say a word. Head to kellybroganmd.com to join and receive my five-day soft power protocol. See you there. How often do you see a sort of regression? You know, my mentor, Nick Gonzalez, was very focused on very long-term outcomes. So, you know, he had like a 34-year, at this point, it's probably many more, year outcome for terminal pancreatic cancer, for example. And it was very important to him that he established that it wasn't just, a phenomenon of proximity to a certain kind of stimulus, that this was a new way that this person was existing. Do you see people have these, especially in your group settings, these transcendent openings, these reconditioning experiences, and then revert back because of the power of that addictive pull? Or is it actually just like they hop to this new plateau and it's relatively stable, which is actually what I've witnessed. Yeah, myself. Well, the answer is, Kelly, I've seen both. I have seen people cross the river of change, and some of them have taken 13 months. They never missed a day because if they didn't show up, then they didn't believe it was possible. So they showed up for themselves, right? You believe in yourself. You believe in possibility. You believe in possibility. You believe in yourself. Show up every day. Take the long walk. Some people, it takes some people seven years, no kidding, for the cancer to be gone in their body. Eight months, 13 months, two years. The people who are making the transitions by changing their personality, right? If I change, nothing changes in my life until I change, so I better start changing, right? So those people that are dealing, they take that kind of long walk. Many of them heal and stay healed because they continue to do the work. They continue to keep changing, right? That's got to be the constant. Others, I've seen this happen with people with Parkinson's disease that were completely healed, have one emotional reaction where a family member wound up in the hospital with a very serious condition and almost died. And the one hour drive from the home to the hospital, all of their symptoms, all of they couldn't even get out of the car. All of their symptoms returned. Why? Because the emotion is what's that survival emotion is downregulating the genes. You know, genes are like Christmas tree lights. They're turning on and off all the time or they're upregulating downregulating. And all of a sudden, boom, she signaled all those genes. And we've seen that happen. By the way, she ultimately stepped back and she said, if I did it once, I could do it again. And she literally did it again. There are other people that heal with metastatic cancer and they stop changing. And some of those symptoms begin to come back and their values go in the wrong direction. So they'll tell you right away, I'm slipping back into my old self again. But the majority of people that have crossed the river and changed their personality, They typically say, as I said, I'm not that person any longer. I'm literally someone else. And it is kind of like a temporal thing. Like they see themselves from a different perspective. Now, we also have this crazy data. And I know you saw the documentary, but this crazy data when people dial down their brain waves and they get just outside of normal and theta. Theta is hypnotic state. Theta is when the door between the conscious mind and subconscious mind is wide open. to information. That is the point where the person can access information. And like a hypnotist who's using, they put someone in theta, they're suggestible. They'll accept the information. They'll believe the information. They'll surrender to the information as if it's the truth without analyzing it. You can get people programmed to do anything, right? But this in this meditation, the person's in theta, they're open to information, but their eyes are closed. The music's filling the space, they're not smelling, they're not tasting, they're not feeling with their body, but they're still suggestible. If the brain is coherent, the brain is highly organized, if it's orderly, there'll come a moment we discovered when a person will begin to move into a very super aroused state They begin to connect to frequency and all frequency carries information And there way more information in the immaterial than there is in the material So now somehow they connect to this invisible field of energy. And when they do, the brain goes into a very heightened, and when I say heightened, I mean extremely heightened state of gamma brainwave patterns. The gamma brainwave patterns are so outside of normal and so coherent, and it's taking place in the limbic brain, not in the neocortex, the seat of the autonomic nervous system. Their connection to energy and information through the autonomic nervous system, which controls all other systems, is sending coherent information to all the cells and tissues of the body, energies and forming matter. And they're connecting. And that arousal doesn't feel like anger, doesn't feel like pain, it doesn't feel like fear, the arousal is ecstasy. Like it's pure love and it's inevitable. People say, I don't have the language to describe. I felt it somatically in my body. Like it felt like every cell in my body was vibrating or my heart exploded or the top of my head blew off or lightning was shooting out of their fingers. They use metaphors and it's very emotional. Like the feeling is very emotional. Like I never felt, I don't know what that is, bliss, ecstasy, connection, love, source. They come up with all kinds of names. When that occurs and we see that, normally there's a biological upgrade in the body. There's the cancer, now it's gone. There's the blindness, now it's gone. There's the deafness, now it's gone. There's the rare genetic disorder, muscular dystrophy, myasthenia gravis, spinal cord injury, whatever. It's gone. Body's lifted by light. It's lifted by a frequency. Those people that have those experiences, they tend to be permanent. They just tend to be like, It's just kind of erased. There's information in the blood that takes 70% of the energy out of a cancer cell. There's information in the blood that causes neurogenesis with the growth of new neurons. There's information in the blood that produces endogenous opioids, natural pain relievers, 100% of the people. Somehow there's information in the blood that's upregulating genes, and the information is not coming from our three-dimensional experience of reality. the information is coming from that invisible field of energy that exists beyond our senses and so those people who have those experiences with oneness or wholeness or a greater level of order it's reflected in their biology as a greater level of order and of stress as autonomic dysregulation and you're going into super high states of coherent gamma which is very high frequency the autonomic nervous system is doing that that's a whole lot of autonomic regulation And so the person somehow gets an upgrade in their experience. They come back and they're in a new body. They literally come back and they're upgraded. They're in a new body. They're in a whole new life. You know, they can chew food now. They can swallow. They can blink their eyes. They can stand up on their own. They're in a whole new life, a whole new environment. And they're not certainly on the same line of time, you know, that they were on their genetic timeline. They're in a whole new future, a whole new time. And you can't get the upgrade from three-dimensional reality. You got to get the upgrade from the reality beyond it. And so those people tend to have a more permanent state. And we're studying this, by the way, in a lot of studies with blood and microbiome and a lot of self-reported surveys, too. Amazing. I love the discussion of the information in the immaterial. And it's not just because I am still in my rebellious phase around my allopathic medical training and how unacknowledged. I sometimes comment that a psychiatrist means a doctor of the soul, etymologically. And I never once heard the word soul in my entire Ivy League training, not one time. So it's very exciting to me. It's very fun. And I wanted to share something. I actually thought of you when I saw this message. And the context is that it's like a group chat for a program that I have based on my last book, The Reclaimed Woman. And I have permission to share this because to me, this is an example of why it is imperative for us to step out of material explanations. And when I left conventional medicine and conventional thinking, I spent a long time in the functional medicine world, which is still very focused on the material. Right. So, you know, there are toxicant exposures. There is the role of nutrition and diet. there are all of these vectors of impact that you can change through behavior. And of course, I still do believe that these are relevant, maybe because of the pattern disrupt that it represents to begin to change the things you buy, begin to change the things and the way that you eat and drink, et cetera. Who knows how these things have an impact, but I used to think, you know, oh, okay, well then to have a healthy pregnancy, you need to eat well and you need to make sure you're not exposed to toxicants. That's sufficient. Okay. So this is a photo, which I obviously am not going to show you now, but it's of this woman's hand and she's missing fingers on her hand. And I'm just going to read a little paragraph because I tell the story of what's called the Handless Maiden. It's like a folk story about the heroine's journey in my book. So she says, the Handless Maiden story is interesting because I was born without fingers. My right hand, which is not pictured here, has the tips of the fingers cut off and stunted as well. And she says, it's an example to me that it's not all about genetics, physical impingement, or teratogenic toxic effects that we assume cause deformity. We absorb way more from trauma and esteric fields than we know. And she says, my mom, when she was in utero, she says, my mom, when I was in utero, sliced off the exact same fingers in a tile saw, and we have matching fingers. The same three fingers, the same right hand looks exactly the same. She says, my dad sliced off his thumb in a chop saw when I was in utero. Anyway, the Handless Maiden, I can relate, she says. And even though that's about the so-called impingement or negative effects of this field of information, to me, that one example means that we must move beyond the material. How else could you possibly explain that? And so it's like the spectrum of what is possible in terms of the information that we derive from the field that could keep us sick or experiencing adversity or deformity or whatever it might be. It's the same principle, obviously, that extends into the realms you're invoking, especially in these group fields where things become informationally accessible that have really nothing to do with these material vectors that so many clinicians, including myself, are very interested in, you know, like the role of diet and the role of detox, et cetera. So I wonder what you think about that because as soon as I read that, I thought, wow, I have to share this with us. Well, first of all, first of all, I firmly believe that there is a thing called genomic imprinting. And I do think that the information about the environment that the parent is experiencing is reflected in the seed and the egg that's carrying information. And many times if a person's living in fear or living in fear and stress, and that's their emotional state, the maternal blood flows and constant communication with the child. So whatever the mother is perceiving in the environment is going to be selecting and instructing genes for it to face the same conditions. Have a strong emotion with a memory that's stored in the body. The gene can pass on to the next generation by the same means. A person who has healed themselves and has actually healed another person and has had really powerful experiences with that, that information genetically can be passed on by the same means to the child. But in a more practical sense, I think a lot about this. There's three types of stress, physical, chemical, and emotional. Physical stress, trauma, accidents, injuries, falls, chemical stress, pesticides, pollutants, blood sugar levels, bacteria, viruses, hangovers, whatever. Emotional stress, family tragedies, second mortgages, single parenting, whatever, 401ks, loss. All of these things to knock the brain and body out of balance. Okay, so the person then addresses their physical, chemical, and emotional balance. Most people will address the physical and chemical component. They'll exercise, they'll get massaged, they'll maybe do acupuncture, they may do interval training, they may do yoga, chiropractic, whatever. They're going to get their body back into physical balance. They may do ketogenic, they may do vegan, organic vegan, they may do intermittent fasting, they may do peptides, they may do vitamins, minerals, pharmaceuticals, whatever, to get the body back into chemical balance. If they're not dealing with the emotional component, they could have the most ketogenic vegan diet, they could do all the right exercise. But if they're constantly out of homeostasis because of their emotional state, the probability of them healing will be lessened to a certain degree. So my interest is pushing the envelope of bite by if you teach a person how to put more attention on that invisible field with their awareness and less attention on the physical world. Pay more attention to it and less attention to you. Open your awareness to it. Feel it. Experience it. Pay attention to it. Relax into it. Fall in love with it. Become more of it and less of you. Person does that sooner or later if the brain's in the right state and it gets coherent and it does. Their interaction with energy and frequency, it should be reflected in their biology. We see it in breast milk. Mothers who breastfeed that come to our events at the end of seven days, if we take their breast milk and put it on lacerated epithelial cells, which normally take two weeks to heal, they heal in 48 hours. There's information in the blood by them interacting with that invisible field of energy that's closer to wholeness, closer to order, a greater level of energy. There's information in the blood that's pro-life, that's pro-growth, that's anti-cancer carcinogenic. So again, like to the materialists, they would say, well, it doesn't exist. Well, if you're unaware of it, it doesn't exist. But if you become aware of it and you interact with it, we discovered that if we take a group of people and they go through a seven-day event, they all have their own gene expression, own individual genotype. Everybody does. And genes make proteins. At the end of seven days, almost 80% of the population is making the same genes. What does that mean? That means there's an emergent consciousness that's reflected in the biology of the collective. The tribe, the herd, the flock, they're all evolving in seven days biologically together. There's an emergence that's taking place. so we know that there aren't that there is information in the field and the probability that we're perceiving the truth of reality is actually zero we there's more in the unseen information wise than there'll ever be in the scene so people just need to understand that premise and that idea and it's so much easier to forget that like especially when you're dealing with bills or kids or, you know, it's so much easier to focus on that. But take a person, get them to retreat from their life and feed them the right information and have them apply it and give them the science to show that it is possible, that they can make their brain work better, they can make their heart work better in seven days. They can change enough biology, enough gene expression at the end of seven days to look like that their body's living in a whole new life, in a whole new environment. That's what our data shows. Push people to that point where they want to stop and have them go a little further and they begin to change, yeah, they'll begin to interact with that energy and frequency and it will be reflected in their biology as a greater level of order. And that's the fun part about it all. Because when you come back to your senses, you're not the same person any longer. That's the fun part. I am so grateful that you exist in the world. I'm so grateful that you expand the permission field of what is possible the way that you do and that you are tirelessly on the ground, also offering these opportunities and experiences because you could certainly do what I do, which is just sort of yap from an ivory tower. And that's not what you're doing. You're rolling up your sleeves. You are curating and presenting event opportunities for people to experience this live. And I am so grateful that I can, you know, offer this resource to people in the world. I hope you keep doing it for a good long time. and I'd love, you know, I can't imagine there are many people listening who aren't familiar with your work, but in the event that there are, what do you imagine is the best way to enter into, you know, this field that you've cultivated? Well, listen, we've done 55 week-long retreats. It's insane. I've been in a week-long retreat for a year of my life. More, I think, I think if you want to see, you know, like 80 different countries, 2,300 people, whatever, it's typically what it is. Coming to a week-long event, I think, is a really full-on immersive experience. And so you can start on all different levels. I mean, some people just want the understanding and the philosophy. And there's books that you can read about that I've written. But then other people really, there's a time in history where it's not enough to know. It's kind of a time in history to know how, right? So join a collective. And you have to do an online course called the Progressive workshop. And that's kind of like eight hours of lectures and four hours of meditations to practice. Now, why do I do that? Because we've got bodies to heal. We've got lives to change. We've got futures to create. We've got the mystical to run into. And I don't want to start at that level. I want to start at this level. And so there's an online course that people can immerse themselves in with meditations and practices. We have the formula, which is, you know, another course, simple, easy. Yeah, we have all kinds of opportunities for people to jump in at any point. But the fun part, really a fun part of this are the week-long retreats. And imagine us doing the research. You can imagine this. We have blood draws and brain mapping and HRV measurements and urine and saliva and microbiome. I mean, we're crazy. This is body fluid. This is flinging all of us. The funny thing about it is that our community loves to do it. I have so much faith in our community. So a week-long event, you'll hear the scientists present. They're full on. They're full on, early in the morning to late at night. But community says it's the best week of their life. So it's a good place to come, meet really cool people, really work on yourself, really invest in yourself. That's where my energy is. My energy is at primarily the week-long events and the advanced follow-ups. We're doing an advanced follow-up, at least four of them a year. Those are for people that have come to a week long. But start, if you can, with a progressive workshop. That's a good place to start. But, you know, there's plenty of stuff, resources to start at any place. Amazing. Thank you, Joe. Thank you so much. No, you're welcome. Great to see you. live weather