The Part About Dating Rich Men No One Talks About ft. Melyssa Ford

for somebody like me who's never been married and is child-free. >> What are you going to do? Like it might not it might not happen for me in this lifetime. Toronto was a screw-face capital. There was nobody making it out. And you were one of the small group of people who gave Toronto the reputation of being the place of the most beautiful women in the world. I've literally had a guy, it literally was a first hang spend $100,000 on me. I did it. I don't want it. That would be the last thing that I advised a young girl to do to look at men of means being your saving grace or your or your safety net. How would you identify where you're at right now? My career is thriving right now. My friendship groups are are are incredible and so fulfilling. I travel a lot. It's the decentering of men. That's really what it is on a large scale. Hey lovers, my name is Shambra. My favorite quote, "The key to happiness is managing expectations." So, here's what to expect with this episode. You're going to listen to a conversation between myself and legendary video vixen, award-winning personality, and podcaster Melissa Ford around what happens when a woman falls deeply in love with her life and then realizes, "Well, heck, maybe I don't need romance after all." especially in today's dating climate. You're also going to see some ads in this episodes. We need those to help the show grow and to really make an impact. If you enjoyed watching this episode, please subscribe to the YouTube channel, hit notifications to learn about future episodes. This makes a very, very big difference around here. Now, if you are listening to this episode, there's a treat for you at the end. I'm going to have a segment where I invite people on to offer real reflections on what they heard from today's episode because often what I took from it is different from what all of you took from it. If you're listening, also you can be a big help to the show by subscribing to wherever you listen, plus rating and reviewing the podcast. Okay, usually we would go right into the interview right now, but I want to actually say something because at the end of this episode, Melissa and I were talking about her current relationship status and what it should be called today. I don't know what the name is, but I just know that the focus has shifted and the it's the desentering of men. That's really what it is. On a large scale, women have desentered men and really started to focus and enjoy their lives without feeling like there's a there's a penance for it or you're going to get the lonely cat lady labeled [ __ ] Don't threaten me with a good time. I want a house full of cats >> or emus or emus. You know what I mean? But I I think that women are really leaning into desentering men and realizing their worlds don't fall apart. After we said our goodbyes, I did some research and came up with a term that I want to present to all of you first before you listen to the interview because I think that will put the interview in the right context for you. Trace Ellis Ross, Maya, Melissa Ford, Chelsea Handler to name a few. When I think of these kinds of women, I don't think I'm single. Like single has connotations. Like people like, "Oh, single, you know." I'm like, "You ain't got to worry about me." Like, baby, I'm living my best life. Like, I'm cute. I'm outside, sample size, got a little cash, drink a martini. I'm not single. Nah, no, no, no, no. I see people who have built amazing lives that are financially stable, socially rich, expansive, creative, and emotionally diverse, whom are pioneering a different kind of love life. And I'm calling this Beththing, which is a posture that says, "Everybody calm down. I'm fine. I'm not searching. I am very fulfilled in my life. And I'm not willing to reorganize this life or define it to change my relationship status." Don't get me wrong, if something great happens to come along that enhances what I've already built and learned to love so much about my life, amazing. But if it doesn't, that's okay, too. And Beththing is happening during a very specific cultural moment. Today, women earn the majority of college degrees in the US. Nearly 60% of bachelor's and master's degrees go to women. And in many major cities, women under 40 are earning on par or more than their male counterparts. Women are also significantly more likely to engage in therapy and engage in self-development work, while men report higher rates of loneliness and maintain fewer close friendships on average. Obviously, these are broad trends, not universal truths, because there are tons of amazing men everywhere. But it would behoove us to acknowledge that statistically in urban environments, we are now in a time where there are more financially stable, college educated, emotionally literate women than there are men, making it very difficult to find a partner who is genuinely equally yolked. Now, if this feels uncomfortable to hear from me, why don't you try listening to John? Yeah, John Burgerer. This trustworthy looking man graduated from Brown, writes about the stock market, and also wrote a book about this called Datonomics. So, I'm calling this Beththing as a play on Queen Elizabeth I. Now, I tried different terms like Enzingaing or kidding. But what makes Queen Elizabeth the First unique and maybe perfect for this role is that not only was she a powerful woman who chose not to marry, she also never had kids. Here's a quick history lesson. Queen Elizabeth ascended to the throne in 1558. Advisers repeatedly pressure her to marry in order to secure alliances and produce an heir. Yet she understood that a husband could dilute her authority or shift the balance of power within her court. Over the course of her 44-year reign, she entertained suitors, negotiated proposals, and maintain close relationships. But ultimately, she chose to remain unmarried. Her decision was not rooted in incapacity for love, but in a cleareyed assessment of what marriage might cost her, sovereignty. That posture, open, but unwilling to compromise the foundation of her power, is the historical underpinnings of Beathing. Now, this is not about being anti- love or anti-man. I love me a man. I also love me a label because that provides more confidence, more clarity, and community around wherever you're at in your relational life. I have a quiz with a bunch of different commitment styles. And this is one that I'm really proud to be adding to it because the truth of the matter is in a world where having a spouse is no longer a requirement, it must be a compliment. And with that, let's move into this episode with Melissa Ford. Hi. Congratulations on being in the media for how many years now? >> Oh lord. Um well I feel like I got my first media gig back in maybe 2003 as on air talent for BET. >> Wow. >> Yeah. And then um in 2007 that's when I kind of started a radioish career with Sirius XM. And now I've been podcasting for about 10 years, >> which is an insane amount of time to be talking sometimes every day. >> And I just before this interview started, I had to quickly chat GPT. I was like, "Has Melissa Ford been cancelled? Has she said any [ __ ] I need to know about? Are there any tweets?" And it was like, "No, no. Here's the thing. You can go as far back as forever ago. I never ever ever used my social media to, you know, to to to air my gripes with people. If anybody is beefing with me, it is a one-sided beef because honey, no. I'm just No. I love that for you. You've been an icon to me for so long. I am a 1985 baby. So, I grew up around the time where Toronto was a screw-face capital. There was nobody making it out. and you were one of the small group of people who was who was making a name for it who gave Toronto the reputation of being the place with the most beautiful women in the world. So, thank you for your work and I'm happy you're here. >> Oh, thank you so much. Um, you know, it was it was myself, it was X, and then it was all of the um models, video models that I was in, you know, that were involved in the same productions. And it was always so strange how toy people kind of assumed that um these productions would be. We were like family, you know, when I saw when I would see the call sheet and I'd see Sasha and Tanisha and Sarah and Naomi, I was like, "Oh, it's about to be on." And we're just >> giving me DMX and Cisco vibes right there. I love it. >> But it was just it was just so much fun. like we we were in it and that was truly living in the moment. Like I can remember those moments, the the depth and the breadth of those moments. I still remember them 20some years later. They they really were fantastic. It was a good time until it became a little bit like oh I don't know uh a little bit of a rush to kind of get to me. There was men sending bottles over. It turned into a competitive thing. Women were dancing around me, trying to dance on top of me. I'm looking at my people like, "What is going on?" I'm just like, I think it's the Canadian in us where we're just very pragmatic about things. And I know that it doesn't really actually mean anything. Fame is a vapor. Popularity is an accident. Riches take wings. The only thing to endure is character. And that is a saying that I live by. It was said by Horus Gley, I believe. >> I'm glad I have the record so I can come back to it. >> It's I've been I've been living by that because this industry will definitely inflate your sense of self. >> Um, and also it can rob you of it at the same time. >> Sorry for the interruption. Thank you so much for staying with us and we would love for you to come back for this episode of Lovers next week. confession on about that too because I've known that you were married this entire time. It feels so perfect that I feel like every few years I check in to be like who has a baby by somebody else now this >> are they still together and it's this I don't want to say uneventful cuz I'm sure there's very >> it's the kind of relationship that's very good on the nervous system. There have been people who met Alano and think that he's a lot. There have been people who met me and been like, "Oh, that's a strong woman." And turn to Alano and be like, "Oh, that seems like that's a lot." We are not a lot to each other. It's what partnership is meant to do, which is hold the mirror up and lovingly call you home to yourself. I know how you like yourself. This isn't the you that you enjoy being. So, what's going on? What's wrong? >> Bye you guys. I love you. >> All right, let's get started with the sponsor of this episode. Tonal, the ultimate strength training system, which gives you a complete gym and a personal trainer right from the convenience of your home. Tonal is my go-to. Monday through Friday, drop the kids to school, work out for 15 minutes. On the weekend, I do an hour. And you know I'm not lying cuz I just reached my 100 workout milestone. So, let's get to work. Things I love about Tono is the live coaching so that you're only doing the work that you're actually benefiting from. I also love the fact that you also get a smart view so you can see exactly what you're doing. Plus, of course, get to see your trainer doing it right. 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The way that you curated the Cree Summers interview. >> Oh my gosh, another Canadian legend. >> I mean, okay, but that interview was so profound. She the way that she articulated, you know, the the ev the process of evolution, even for somebody like me who's never been married and is child-free, I still it still very much resonated with me because when she said, "I think it's out there somewhere." And another really interesting thing I've discovered about myself is I don't know if I ever want to live with someone ever again. Mhm. I think as non-traditional as that is, I really would like a traditional marriage, a monogous marriage, uh a a real committed marriage, but I don't know if I want someone in my home. >> But I also love how this all kind of ties in together of just likeing the rules and really leaning into like what feels good for you and finding relationships and sexual relationships and acts um and partnerships and ideas that you can just melt into. Well, it's just so nice that you exist and I'm so glad that you're a sister because we have to see a reflection of ourselves to learn about these things sometimes to accept these things. >> And I think about Brave and Hero, my beautiful daughters and aren't they so lucky? I know the world is on fire, but in this example, aren't they so lucky to be born now where they don't have to struggle the way I did >> pretending to be something you're not in the bedroom? I mean, I used to pretend to be so koi and so shocked and so amazed, you know, when this is the same old thing, you know, unimpressed but figning fascination, you know. Um, but it took me years to realize you don't have to do that and you don't have to be satisfied with mediocre sex and you don't have to pretend something's good that isn't. And I'm going to make sure that my daughters don't have to do that dance. And I think we're coming into a sexual revolution and women are coming to a place where they don't want to do that >> and they're realizing well not I think we probably never wanted to do that but we're realizing we don't have to do that. >> What she really highlighted is that as long as we are alive we're in this constant cycle of birth and death. you know when it came to say like my mom dying passing away during um pandemic just anguish feel endless love but the one thing that I also felt was that I'm watching somebody leave this earth and you can't take anything with you so everything that at one time used to be important like materialwise it left with her. So now I was I was left with this feeling that I can I can no longer want things the way I once did. And I had to mourn that part of myself because it's like, well, who are you? Who are you when you no longer crave things? It was not. It was I think that intimacy was something that I never really thought much about until I started to have experiences with it that were platonic, you know. Um, for example, when I was here last year to accept a Gracie Award for my podcast, um, I went out Thank you. I went out one night with my girlfriends for, you know, another appearance and I had a very, very, very, very tight ponytail and I wanted to keep the ponytail, but by the end of the night, there was no way. And so my girlfriend, you know, she sat me down on the floor, she sat like this and starts taking the ponytail out of my hair. And then as soon as all the pony ponytail hair was out of my hair, without even asking, she started to massage my scalp. I remember what that felt like. It was just like all the good drugs, dopamine, oxytocin, seroton flooding my whole brain and and face and skin. And it also made me understand or or led me to the thoughts that I don't know if I've really had an intimate relationship with a man in my entire life. >> Would you say that like I I don't know much about your background. You talked to me a little bit about the home that you grew up in >> and walking up those steps and the part of Toronto that you were in, but >> we all materialistic and we live in a capitalist society, but would you say that you identified with being materialistic? >> I mean, I think that there was a point in time where, you know, money started to come in. So now I could afford things that I had never even dreamed of affording before. And then also I dated men of means, you know. So I started flying by PJ and um staying in, you know, wonderful hotels and incredible suites and traveling the world and you know, literally just I mean I've literally had a guy, it wasn't even a first date, it literally was a first hang spend $100,000 on me. I've had somebody else present me with like a $150,000 necklace. Um, this is the this is the initial presentation. Wow. I'm like, that's crazy, but I'll take it. Um, I looked at that necklace. I was like, that is a down payment on a house. Let me hold on to that sucker. Um, but you know, it just it rings it just rings so hollow because then you'll see those same guys do that for other girls kind of thing, you know. It's just mens with means that that's that's nothing nothing to them, you know? So, it's not it's not intim intimacy. It's not even because they really like you. It's it's it's just very transactional. This business, this industry is extraordinarily transactional. So, yeah. So what? Yeah, it makes sense that being of that culture, you don't get to actually feel and experience what intimacy genuinely is. No. No. Um, do you know how intoxicating it is to have the world cheering for your relationship while you're still in the honeymoon phase? You feel literally drunken love. That's what it feels like. Who did you experience that with? >> I don't want to admit it. Um, oh, okay. Um, the first person that I experienced that with, his name is OC Minora. He was a defensive end for the Giants, uh, two-time Super Bowl champion, uh, future Hall of Famer. Um, yeah, that's the first person. I I hesitate to use the word soulmate, but boy did we make sense to each other. Boy, could we like read each other's both Scorpios, we could like read each other's minds. I predicted his whole life, his Super Bowl wins, everything. Like we just we were so simple. We were really simple people. Just really, really visible and famous. Like our favorite thing to do was to like eat ribs in bed and watch like binge watch TV. You know what I mean? >> First of all, gross. Second of all, cute. I mean, I love ribs. Um, like that was like our famous We go to the local movie theater. like we were really really really like regular, but you know it was it was short-lived the the the the intoxicating nature of everybody cheering for us, you know, because then the jealousy of others set in and then, you know, locker room talk and whatnot and that had a just a catastrophic effect on us. He was so young. I was young, but he was younger. I was 30, he was 25. So, um, yeah. And so, the second time something like that happened was Flow Rider. And that's all I'll say on that. I said, "It's fine." He took the permission. I said, "If the phone rings, I have no idea." Yeah, like I literally like >> No, it's PR. >> No, it's it's it's flow right as like PR person WHO'S LIKE, "ZEP IT UP. >> You signed the agreement. Stop talking." >> Yeah, that was Yeah, unfort there's pictures I was going to say. Unfortunately, there's pictures that you could Google, so you'll see who that was. Um, but primarily I would hide whoever I was dating for the main reason that I didn't want to be recognized for being anybody's girlfriend. >> Any any the reasons why I wanted to be judged by my own career, my own merit, um, my own accomplishments. I didn't want there to be anything said like, "Oh, well, she's just because she dated so and so." Uh-uh. No. And when I say that I dated people who were like height of fame and no one knew because I I pressured them to keep it very quiet. But in the moments when it got leaked and you were receiving that fanfare and it where there was this excitement and you become basically the prince and princess of the town, >> you feel like you feel like you need to keep up appearances, but it's falling apart. Especially if one person is falling out of love with the other at a faster rate. Yeah. >> The worst feeling. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um that sucks. That's that's that sucks. Um because then you're you're left with, you know, just what do I do? Because then you're worried that this is some kind of, you know, effect on you. It's always it always affects the women more than it affects the men, though. But that also goes to say that we have finite amount of time of things to focus on. And then if we do have time to look for mates or be in those circles, we have to be very selective about the environments that we go in and what we're focused on getting. So I want to actually have this conversation with you because I have two daughters, right? And my kids are in Gen Alpha >> and for Gen Alpha, twothirds of the jobs that exist right now will not exist when they are of age. So it's a very uncertain future for them. >> Yeah. And we live in increasingly uncertain times right now. And I have a big gripe with hypergamy. >> You know, the idea of telling my daughters that looking for a financially stable partner is the best bet even in spite of the fact that we live in economic uncertain times. So, I'm just curious from your vantage point on that because there is so much talk about that online and like I said, everything you described in some people's case it sounds like a fantasy like getting presented with a $150,000 necklace on day one. Yeah. >> Like that's a fantasy. >> Would you do you feel a sense of disillusionment from it or what would you say in response to people who look at that and say, "Oh, I aspire to that." >> So getting the $150,000 necklace. Well, the everything that goes with it to be putting yourself in the places where that's even possible. >> It's just not real. It's too It would be too difficult to maintain. It would be a headache to maintain. It would be constant anxiety. And I don't want it. I did it. I don't want it. Never want that for myself anymore. Um, so if I that would be the last thing that I advised a young girl to do to look at, you know, p, you know, look at men of means being, you know, your saving grace or your or your safety net. I just we're girls are thriving, women are thriving, we're outpacing men in every aspect of life right now. By the way, I saw their pictures. They are stunning. You must be so proud. >> Thank you. I am. I really, really am. And I am hopeful for them. And I am hopeful for them to have an intimate life that is fulfilling. And I also acknowledge that it comes in all forms. And don't get me wrong, I've spoken to women before who have a partner who has lots of means. And it contributes. may not be the only reason, but it definitely contributes to their feeling of appreciation to be in the relationship, love for the relationship. Like, and don't let me say that being like all rich men are pieces of [ __ ] That is definitely not what I'm saying. Yeah. >> However, I have dated enough of them that there is a consistency. I call it rich man syndrome. And you know what rich man syndrome looks like? >> What? >> Somebody got to get that. That's just their attitude. somebody is always going to fall like they they walk with a wake in front of them and whatever happens behind them, they've got people just scrambling and picking things up and whatever else. And also the fact that they have the money also is they just they just they walk with the the attitude and the bravado that they are they are the bread winner and they're the ones that are affording you this luxurious life. I was never very vocal about what it was that I wanted. The vast majority of men that I've been involved with have assumed that my love language was gifts. They weren't. It was not. It's like, okay, well, I'm not going to slap a gift horse in the mouth, but that's not my love language. That's not the primary one. The primary one is, you know, is quality time and then, you know, right physical touch, you know, and those were the like the quality time was the one thing that I could never really get, but I always felt like I was asking for too much. Yeah. Yeah. And that's where I had to, you know, do a lot of internal work understanding standards, boundaries, how it all relates to my sense of self-esteem um or lack thereof at different times. Like I for a long time I lacked I lacked a lot of self-esteem. Thankfully that attitude is going out the window. You know, kind of really love that Vogue article. Is it embarrassing to have a boyfriend these days? like like I've been on this time, >> right? I've been saying don't post me, >> right? >> I am a pioneer many many things. Um but yeah, no, I just I've definitely had the whole can't keep a man, you know, what's wrong with you? You know, you see you seem so perfect, so something must be wrong with you kind of thing. And it's just like, okay, whatever. >> Well, there's an element to luck of it, which we have to acknowledge in anything in life, right? Like I always remember this article I read about Zack Efron saying when people have praised him for the High School Musical thing or for for his acting career, he's like, "I want you to know that when I walked in the audition room, there was 70 other people who looked identical to me. >> For some reason, somehow some lucky break, maybe I reminded someone a little more of their nephew or I made a joke that hit with someone cuz they just ate that food that day." Whatever it was, there was some lucky break that happened. It has nothing to do with talent or merit or anything else. >> Very true. >> I was there for the opportunity. I got a lucky break. And that applies to love or anything else. You walk into the deli store, you go to the grocery store, like you fall in love or you have you have to have the chance meeting and then plus the availability. There's a lot of things that play to make it so finding your person is extremely hard. I actually love what was that girl from um Harry Potter's name? >> Uh Emma Emma um Emma Watson. >> Yeah. In an interview about that, she was asked that question too. Like I don't get it. you're everyone's dream girl. You're She was most beautiful woman alive at one point and how are you still single? And she's like, "How entitled are you all?" >> Why do you think that this is such a miracle thing to be a person, to find yourself, to love yourself, and to find somebody else who loves themsel, who you love being with, who amplifies your life, you happen to amplify theirs, and you want the same thing, live in the same town, your friends and family get along, like all of the variables that take place to make that happen. Why do we all feel like everybody should just have that? I I never did. I've always felt like people who found their person and they work and they just work, you know, they like as well as love cuz that's to me like is more important than love because there's a thin line between love and hate, but like equals respect. You know what I mean? And I've always looked at people who have like found their person and f, you know, just found the, you know, the their their soul's counterpart, if you will. >> I've always found them to be so lucky because it is so it's really like a lottery. >> You know what I mean? And I just don't see anybody out there that I really would love to sleep with. Like I just I'm super like I'm an incel right now. involuntary celibate because there's nobody out there that I would really like to sleep with, you know, and plus I'm so busy. >> I for me, >> man, what are you going to do? Like it might not it might not happen for me in this lifetime. And whenever I say things like that, because I've said this for a really long time, people try to come to my rescue like, "Oh, don't think like that. Oh, you're putting negativity in the universe." I'm like, "Oh, shut the up. I'm sorry." Like, re am I really is it or is it just my Canadian pragmatism and also like my assessment of, you know, of chances and statistics? You know what I mean? There's nothing but opportunities to like lay down with somebody, but relationship wise, even less. Yeah. Even less. There's there's just a real divide happening out there in, you know, when it comes to like people who are still in the dating game. Um, I exited stage left. I don't even I, like I said, I don't even bother. My career is thriving right now. My friendship groups are are are incredible and and so fulfilling. I travel a lot. I solo travel. I love it. I'm really having a great moment in my life that is lasting years. So that the thought of like letting somebody in to potentially disrupt that I I don't I don't have the time, patience, or desire um for it. I'm seeing like a lot of women opting out too. >> Mhm. Like a lot of women are just opting out because we're just we're exhausted, you know, and it's not just, you know, race, ethnicity, or even age. I'm seeing like 30some year old saying like, "Yeah, nope. 4B movement, you know, again, going back to probability." And especially as specific as your life is, as high-profile as you are, as beautiful and as intimidating um as you are, you have a very specific life. You're going to require a very specific partner. If you go to a town and you want, if there's a hundred men there and you're like, "Okay, I want him to be college educated. All right, cool. There's 30 left. >> I don't want him to be my cousin. All right, well, now there's 28 left. I don't want I want him to be six feet. Now there's five left. I don't want him to be married. Now there's two left." So the probability game happens when just by virtue of the person that you're looking for, it's going to be very specific. >> And then to your point, maybe you don't want to spend your energy searching. No. >> Because it might take that, you know, when um Jafar was searching for that lamp. Yeah. >> Do you want to turn over every grain of sand to find your partner? No, I'm just I'm leaving it up to the universe, you know, and so I feel like maybe possibly through my job, through the work that I do now, you know, doing uh public uh you know, uh public speaking engagements, ending up at conferences like the Congressional Black Caucus and film festivals and that sort of thing, you know, I mean that those kinds of, you know, places and events kind of more likely probabilitywise have the um the echelon of man that I am, I would be um more likely to consider. Um but for me, it's not just status and prestige and height and bank account. It's not that. I am looking for somebody who actually enjoys being an adult, you know, cuz I've dealt with so many men that had like, you know, arrested development and Peter Pan syndrome, and I just I can't. I'm looking for somebody who has uh has has healthy boundaries. I want somebody who is emotionally intelligent, um emotionally mature, um still curious. He doesn't He can have kids. I'll be a great stepmom. Just don't put any pressure on my uterus, okay? Because these eggs are scrambled. It's done. All right. I'll be a great stepmom. >> No, no, no. I never really got the memo. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I never really got the memo. You know, very determined. So, if I really wanted to have to have a child, I would have had a child. And I >> You can still >> No. >> No. Maybe not with your own, but you can still raise a child. You can still >> Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And there's just so many children that are unwanted that ethically that would make the most sense for me to adopt. And I'd probably more likely than not if I found myself in a financial position to be able to do something like that, >> it would be an older child because they tend to, you know, get left behind. Um so that that would be, you know, um that would be how that would go. But in terms of guys, he doesn't even have to be six feet. Like the whole six six66 six six figures 6 feet 6 in. Oh my god. I'm looking for kindness. I'm looking for compassion. I'm looking for a man that loves animals because my two puppies are my they're my dog. Okay. And my dream is to have a mini farm. I want a lot of animals. I want ducks. I need a goat. I want a cow, like a horse, maybe an emu, you know. Yeah, he got to be with that. >> We're getting very specific now. See, I'm just taking away numbers. We started with 100. Now we got decimal five. >> I know. I know. >> Who doesn't love an emu? Come on. >> Let me tell you something. Online, I have seen a lot of cute black farmers. I do. >> That is so true. I have seen a lot of cute black well cute farmers just in general because I'm I'm not race specific. I'm h you know I'm half half so I've dated them all. Um but yeah, you know, I mean like bring your like aux and cart and come on. I got trapped in this algorithm on YouTube that was just lawnmowers and they just go to people's house and mow their lawn and that's it. They just film themselves mowing it. I guess it's like some type of the visual but they were fine. So I guess like maybe kind of like lawn mower porn >> lawn mower porn. That's becoming very popular. So maybe I'm just filling in the blanks for it. >> Yeah, I know. I do love a lumber sexual. Yeah, >> I do. I do. It's kind of bring your >> very punny girl. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like leaf Ericson. Come on. It's such a pleasure to be able to sit with women like um yourself cre uh Tracy Ellis Ross and then the like another increasingly amount of women online who are claiming this for themsel. I sat with this sociologist who came up with this term called single at heart which essentially stated people who to the point that you made about a love life, right? We have in our North American society a very linear idea of what it means to have a love life, but you can talk to many people who have a very fulfilling romantic love life who still feel very lonely. >> And I'll raise my hand on that one. I felt very lonely within a nuclear family. And then I had to start asking myself, what happened to my friends? What happened to my family? what happened to going to the grocery store and just talking to people. I was mentioning I just came back from St. Louis and I just make it my devotion whenever I'm out of the house to be genuinely with people because I want a love life >> and if I didn't have one of those pieces I would still consider my life to be filled with love because the intention is there just like if I didn't have a romantic partner I would still consider myself to have a love life. M. >> So, do you think that there is something to that with more women claiming that they have a love life that is fulfilling and satisfying that doesn't need a partner to it? Is that what you're claiming? to your point about you know our our our thinking about love lives in a linear fashion. I think that that is kind of dissolving that attitude and people are starting to understand that they are not beholden to like you know strict rules and like boxes and stuff like that you know. Um, one of my favorite relationships that I had was, uh, it was maybe about a year after my mom passed away, maybe like a year and a half, somewhere in there, we could talk about, shoot, if he was dating somebody else, like he could have that kind of conversation with me and and it did not phase me cuz I was not looking to make him anything more than who he told who he told me he wanted me to be for him and I really wasn't looking for anything else because I was still reeling. >> Yes. >> You know, in grief >> and it Yeah. And it just it was just perfect. Perfect timing, perfect person, perfect length of time. We're still very good friends. Um he's in a relationship now. I wish him all the best. You know, just he's still one of my favorite people on on this planet. taught me a lot about just how important transparency is and not to be afraid of transparency, you know, um because I think that a I think that a lot of people are, you know, not exactly you could be in a relationship with somebody for 20 years and they don't really actually know you. >> Yeah. >> You know, um but there's certain relationships where you see people and you're like, you see that the mask is off with those two. It's probably a complicated question to answer, but it happened relatively recently because you mentioned after your mom passed. So within the last five years, that's when you've started this amazing relationship with yourself. >> Is there a key thing that you switched or a moment you can bring me into that really explains how you did it? >> I think two things. In 2022, I was introduced to micro doing psilocybin. I was severely severely depressed. And you know, I've been diagnosed with major depressive disorder. Um, and my mom's death really really really really was it it changed me. It was just it was like a a meteor hit my my my world, my earth. Um, and I just wasn't doing very well and I still had like ideas about anti-depressants that just I just had I just couldn't do it, you know? I just I was too scared. Um and then a couple of friends talked to me about micro doing and I was a little intimidated by it but I I started you know doing that with therapy and and that really worked. So that would be one thing and then just through just through intense therapy as years went on my sense of dignity >> my sense yeah my sense of dignity grew. I've never really thought much about it. I never really I never used the word to describe myself. You I'm very articulate, you know, as Canadian girls, but I've used many words to to to describe myself, but I've never used the word dignity. And it was when my dignity was challenged that I realized that how important it was and how fiercely I need to guard it because in dignity you find self-love. You find it right there. You know that is where you are like mama bear for yourself. Mama bear for the inner child. Now I stand tall. I stand tall with my feet firmly planted on the on the ground and just know exactly who I am. And there's nothing anyone can tell me anymore about who they think I am. >> It's beautiful. >> Thank you. That's such a great close for me, too, because um my last question for you, I'm very obsessed with representation and relationship styles and labels. and labels not because I want to confine people to something but because I want people to know that there's tons of options and labels create community. They create a sense of belonging and then also it gives us a framework of someone else to point to which even then you wouldn't subscribe to the ritual of panic. >> And so there's a label that's kind of coming up for where you're at >> that is becoming increasingly more common. And I mentioned this too, like I am very much in the algorithm of seeing all of the think pieces and the Washington Post pieces around like, do we need men anymore? Um, I need my man. He's the best. That's my that's my lover. That's my light. But I know so many incredible women who are adopting this and feeling this and having a love life and being super proud of themsel and maybe they're not necessarily asexual or closed off to the idea, but they're also not searching for it. And that sense of dignity being kind of the grounding principle. Yeah. That informs whether or not they even allow something to take up their time. Yeah. Because they have many other things that they love that their time is filled with. What do you think we say like what is that? What is this new form of relationships that is coming about that? And how would you identify where you're at right now? >> H that's interesting. You know, I just I was just in Tulum the other day. um the other day meeting like a few weeks ago and uh I found myself in this huge community of expats, you know, uh women of color who have basically left the US and their primary residence is Tulu. >> Love that for them. >> Oh child, their lives are lit. Okay. Like one of my girlfriends, Tamiko, she rolls around on a pink ATV. like that's her primary like source of transportation and you know it's just like they've curated the lives that they want for themselves. They, you know, they were in the rat race here in America. You know, they had the big, you know, the big houses, fancy cars, marriage, kids, the whole nine. And they were like, "This is not fulfilling. This ain't it." And they just basically started the slow progression towards this being their lives. And now they're all there. And I was just like, I want to come. I can't. I got to figure this out how I can be here regularly. Um, and I just thought it was like so incredible to just watch, you know, and I also had a retreat in Mexico back in September and just to watch these women who most of them were strangers to each other just kind of come together. My god, when women get together, we can change weather systems. We're very powerful. That's what they're scared of. And I think that what's happening is collectively women are starting to truly understand what what community actually feels like. Not just your friend group, not just your social circle, what what community actually means for us, you know. And you see it happening where women are like creating like tiny home communities for each other. um taking care of each other like you know pallet of care and that sort of thing like I just I just I don't know what the name is but I just know that the focus has shifted and the it's the decentering of men that's really what it is on a large scale women have desentered men and really started to focus and enjoy their lives without feeling like there's a there's a penance for it or You're going to get the lonely cat lady labeled [ __ ] Don't threaten me with a good time. I want a house full of [ __ ] cats >> or emus >> or emus. You know what I mean? But I I think that women are really leaning into desentering men and realizing their worlds don't fall apart that actually they they become pretty pretty fantastic. you know, men might actually be the accessory and not the centerpiece. I think that we're collectively kind of discovering that, you know, >> I'm like trying to I'm not a very good historian, but after this I'll definitely look cuz I'm like, is it Cleopatraing because I don't, you know, Cleopatra had lovers, but and her legacy wasn't her love life. It was a part of the story, but >> I think that that would be a great one. >> Or is it Prince Anning? You know, Prince Anne was one of Henry VIIs or or Queen Anne. Sorry. put some respect on it, baby, or Queen Elizabeth. But there is something there. >> There seems like there's a little bit more agency, personal agency and autonomy there. >> Yeah. Like I'll take you tonight and you can fan me and you give me some grapes. >> But I got an early morning cuz I got things to do, a kingdom to run. >> Wrap this up. >> Let's wrap this up. >> I got to I got to move down that the Nile and, you know, ruin a few people's lives. Are you the villain? >> Oh, never. No. And nobody. Okay, that's a lie. Um, in I'm sure in a few people's story I'm the villain, but I'm Canadian. I'm nice in my DNA. >> I did hear your you had an out and about something something slipped in there. >> Sometimes it creeps out. >> I have that, too. >> It Yes. I'll say house and I'm like [ __ ] I know. Okay. Well, in closing, I just want to ask what's lighting you up right now that you want to have everybody else come share in right now. I know you have a podcast. You're here in town right now because you're nominated for an NAACP. Um, where can people go learn more about you and what do you want to share with them right now? >> You can find me on my Instagram page, Melissa Ford. Uh, M L Y S A F O D. My podcast is called Hot and Bathered with Melissa Ford. Uh, like Shan said, we are nominated for an NAACP award, which is why is this when dreams come true? But manifestations, really manifestations. We I I manifested all of it. You know, I was telling my my EP, Rachel, in the beginning when we were doing the podcast, she was like, "Oh my god, this is going to be so exciting." I was like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." I was like, "We're going to win awards. The Jewel and the Crown's going to be retreats. Watch what happens. Everything has happened." Um, and actually I'm in the process of writing a book to honor my mom. You know, the six days that I she's I spent with her on her deathbed that's going to be the the meat and potatoes um of the book um because she she chose medical assistance in dying. And I think that that is a very controversial topic right now. And I want to honor my mother, but I also want to promote my advocacy for it >> because I, you know, I I'm I'm a huge, you know, advocate for autonomy. And as women, our rights are just being stripped away. So, this is just I think that it's a privilege to have the have the choice to to choose how you leave this leave this world, you know, and return to source. >> What a dignified send off. It's so beautiful for you to do that for her. My mom was the strongest human I have ever met in my life. Just the strongest complicated relationship, mothers and daughters. But wow. Wow. Yeah. >> I wish I could have interviewed her because I got a Scorpio daughter, too. So, I'm sure she could teach me some things and I'd be very proud to have a daughter like you one day. So, shout out to your mama. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you, girl. Can I just say a big thank you to Melissa Ford and her really sweet large team who came along with her. There is no wonder that this woman is so successful and as productive as she is. She's smart and beautiful and of course talented and has surrounded herself with a bunch of people who I would give those same adjectives to. So, please go to the show notes and find yourself in the world of Melissa. I actually can't wait to go to the comments section on this one. I often have conversations with people that I think are very lovely, very eye-opening, inspiring. As mentioned at the top of the episode, this conversation inspired me to add a new relationship style to my relationship style quiz. I would love to continue to add styles. The more people don't feel alone, alien, or like failures for not fitting into the conventional definition of what a love life is, the better. And of course, the less people find themselves forcing themselves into dynamics that rob them of their livelihood, of their autonomy. And so for many people, monogamy and a partridge and a pear tree and a picket fence and two kids, that's going to work for you and that's beautiful. And then for other people, either they don't find themselves in that scenario or don't want themselves in that scenario. And that's a wonderful thing to acknowledge for yourself and surround yourself with community who also uplift those values as well. So that's why I'm very passionate about relationship styles. Anyways, to circle back to the comment section, I really enjoyed this conversation. I really believe Melissa. I was very inspired by it. But sometimes I can go to the comments and people had a very different read. So I'm actually very curious what you all, the people that I work for, thought about this conversation. So I'm going to take it now to my lovers community. This is going to be an audio only segment. Camera's off so nobody feels like they have to perform or say the right thing. People can be really honest about what they thought. Now, if you're watching, unfortunately, you don't get to hear this, but easy peasy fix. Go over to Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast, scroll to the end of this episode, and then you'll be able to listen to this extra segment. Um, and if not, this is where we say goodbye. And if you want to learn more about the lovers community, so you can actually join conversations like the one I'm about to jump into right now, go to loversbyshan.com. That's also the place you could go to find the relationship style quiz. where there now is a new edition thanks to Melissa. Bye everybody. I can't wait to get everyone's reflection on this. And if there's anybody who was like, "Look, I call bullshit." Da da da da da da. You know, we love those two. There there was one point where um I think she said a herself and a lot of women are at are at this point from a place of exhaustion. And for a second, I got kind of sad because I'm like, damn. You know, I myself included and a lot of my girlfriends, a lot of people are experiencing this well-rounded, fulfilling life that has to do with their friends and their creativity and all these things. But it's it it makes me a little sad that that road was paved with such disappointment. But almost immediately after she got got out of that part of um of what she was saying, she started talking so playfully about what she still wants. And I thought that that was just just a gorgeous sentiment cuz I think that in the internet of it all it's very it's all these extremes be shitty and we were exhausted and so we're deciding to just like take the reigns and have a good time but also I still want things. I still want a farmer. I still want a um lumber sexual which I loved. Um so I was happy to to see both of those things in the same conversation. I think that was like really inspiring and we need that overall. Sales and distribution of Lovers by Shan is by Lemonada Media. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonatada Premium yet, now is the perfect time. You can listen to Lovers by Shan completely adfree. Plus, you'll unlock exclusive content such as extended episodes from your favorite guests. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonadremium.com to subscribe on any other app or listen adree on Amazon Music with your Prime membership. That's lemonadapremium.com. Do not miss out.

Get $200 off your Tonal purchase! Get a complete gym + a trainer in your home by going to http://tonal.com then use promo code LOVERS for that big discount. — In this episode of Lovers, Melyssa Ford joins me for a conversation about desirability, partnership, and what it means to build a full life without centering it around finding “the one.” Melyssa has been publicly desired for decades. She’s dated wealthy men, high-profile men, and men who could provide an extraordinary lifestyle. And yet, she’s never been married and doesn’t have children. In this conversation, she reflects on what that actually means, not from a place of regret, but from a place of honesty. What happens when you are wanted by many but not chosen in the way you hoped? What if partnership never materializes the way you imagined it would? We also discuss something I call Bething, the tension between becoming the person you are meant to be and chasing the life you thought you were supposed to have. Bething is about allowing yourself to exist fully in the present version of your life, even if it doesn’t match the cultural script you were handed. It’s the practice of building something meaningful instead of waiting for someone to complete it. This episode is not about giving up on love. It’s about living well whether love arrives in the way you expected or not. It’s about separating desirability from devotion, lifestyle from longevity, and fantasy from fulfillment. If you’ve ever quietly wondered what happens if you never meet your person, this conversation is for you. Follow Melyssa Ford → Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melyssaford → Watch Hot & Bothered with Melyssa Ford (YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgI18pIo71rZWq6upn_QxMg Listen to Hot & Bothered Podcast: available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts & all major platforms → Get her book Allow Me to Reintroduce Myself: 13 Lessons for a Life Well Lived: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/58631608-allow-me-to-reintroduce-myself?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=n6x35X4UoC&rank=1 Want more Lover? Receive the weekly Love Letter → http://loversbyshan.com/newsletter Join the Lovers Community → https://www.loversbyshan.com/community Explore quizzes and worksheets → http://loversbyshan.com/quizzes If you haven’t subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now’s the perfect time → lemonadapremium.com ________________________ Advertising & Other Inquiries: team@loversbyshan.com