Talking with John Heilemann about Trump’s possible election plans

If you think about the ICE situation, what does Los Angeles to Washington DC to Chicago to Minneapolis look like to you if not the test runs for using ICE instead of the National Guard, which Trump has kind of, I think, decided, well, those people might be too loyal to the law to do what I need to do, but I'm so I'm going to build my paramilitary force, and now I'm going to start doing test runs in these various cities. They're not just about the immigration, detention, and deportation agenda. They're about exercising the muscles that his paramilitary unit, which is just what ICE has become. That's all it is. It's clear what it is. And it's clear that if you saw it in any other country, you would say this is a paramilitary operation. Given what you're seeing on the streets and Trump's repeated discussions of how we shouldn't have an election, we don't need an election, his threats to invoke the insurrection act, and all of that, I think you'd have to be nuts not to think Trump and his people trying to figure out the correct combination of justifications, legal ration, paperwork, and then at the same time the muscle that you would need to send to actually seize control whether it's of ballot boxes or whether it's of just trying to intimidate voters from who are trying to in the in key states try to intimidate people from going to the polls on election day or whether it means he tries to call them off altogether. All of that's on the table right