'Smells like corruption': Maddow points out bizarre pattern of overpayments for warehouses by DHS

This podcast is brought to you by WISE, the app for international people using money around the globe. With the WISE account, you can send, spend, and receive in over 40 currencies with no markups or hidden fees. Whether you're sending pesos across the pond, spending reyes in Rio, or getting paid in dollars for your side gig, you'll get the mid-market exchange rate on every transaction. Plus, most transfers arrive in less than 20 seconds. Join 15 million customers. Be smart. Get WISE. Download the WISE app. Terms and conditions apply. If you dread dealing with your insurance more than getting stuck in an elevator with an overshare. Bean burrito for lunch. You have Insuranoia. You should have NJM. They go to great lengths to do what's best for their policyholders. Insurance underwritten by NJM Insurance Company and its subsidiaries. The president has a 33% approval rating and a 62% disapproval rating. The president is now sending American ground troops, thousands of them, and special forces as well, to join his inexplicable war in Iran, which is now entering its second month. That war is even less popular than the president himself is, specifically the idea of U.S. troops having boots on the ground in that war. That is even less popular than the overall war. There is now a 10-foot-tall golden toilet on the National Mall at the Lincoln Memorial. It says, quote, a throne fit for a king. In a time of unprecedented division, escalating conflict, and economic turmoil, President Donald Trump focused on what truly mattered, remodeling the Lincoln bathroom in the White House. The plaque next to the 10-foot-tall gold toilet says Trump is, quote, an unwavering visionary who looked down, saw a problem, and painted it gold. The gold toilet president this weekend was also the target of one of the largest single day nationwide demonstrations in American history. Organizers say more than eight million Americans protested against President Donald Trump this weekend. These were the third no kings protests against Donald Trump in 10 months. and there were more than 3,000 separate protests all over the country, which if I went one by one, it's too many for me to show you all in one sitting. But, you know, the organizers in advance of this weekend's protests had said that they were noticing a little bit of a theme, sort of a trend. They were noticing not only that there were going to be more no-king's protests against Trump in more places than there ever had been before. But they said specifically they'd noticed kind of a red state spring happening. More signups, more planned protests against Trump in red states and in places specifically, even within red states that voted for Trump. They had said to expect that based on what they'd seen from signups. And then that's what happened this weekend. Look, this is what no Kings protests look like this weekend in northern Alabama, in Huntsville, Alabama, also in Red State, Alaska, in Anchorage, in the Villages in Florida, which is the biggest retirement community in the country. It's famously a nest of Republican votes for Republican politicians. But this was the Villages' huge No Kings anti-Trump protest this weekend. Also, check out Jonesboro, Arkansas, the county where Jonesboro, Arkansas is. Trump won that in 2024 by a 37-point margin. But now look, this weekend, Jonesboro, Arkansas is no kings. This is Nebraska. Hastings, Nebraska up there in the upper left. Adams County is where Hastings, Nebraska is. Trump won there in the last election by 40 points. But now here's Hastings, Nebraska, no kings. Look at North Dakota. In the last election, Trump won that state by the largest margin in that state in a presidential election in more than 70 years. But you're looking in the upper right there, you're looking at Minot, North Dakota, where Trump won by nearly 50 points. Well, yeah, that was then. This was Minot, North Dakota this weekend. No kings. This is not some caricature of liberal America. Lower left there, that's Topeka, Kansas. Lower right there, that's Rapid City, South Dakota this weekend. I mean, behold, famously liberal Oh, Wyoming, lower left there. Wyomingnews.com says there were at least 20 different No Kings protests this weekend in Wyoming, including this one in Cheyenne at the state capitol. The local press reported that Cheyenne protest was significantly larger than previous No Kings protests at that site. Up in the upper left, that's Tupelo, Mississippi. In the upper right, that's Bluefield, West Virginia. Lower right, that's Southern Indiana. That's Evansville, Indiana, where Trump won by 13 points in that county. But this weekend, that was Evansville, Indiana. No kings. Some of the biggest protests in the whole country were in red states this weekend. Look at the upper left there. That's Boise, Idaho. Look at the turnout there. And the upper right, look at Salt Lake City, Utah. Louisville, Kentucky in the lower left there. Lower right, that huge protest in the lower right. That's Louisiana. That's New Orleans, Louisiana. Missoula, Montana, which is the upper left here. Look how big that is. They had pretty big crowds for the previous No Kings protests in Missoula. But this weekend, Missoula organizers said the turnout was double or possibly triple the turnout they had previously had on previous No Kings protests. Up the upper right there, that's Charlotte, North Carolina. You will remember that locals in Charlotte stood up mightily and protested and protested and protested against the attack on their city from Trump's federal ICE agents. Well, this was No Kings in Charlotte this weekend, a really big turnout. Lower left, that's Dallas, Texas. Lower right, that's Columbus, Ohio. The great state of Tennessee saw big protests for no kings. Up in the upper left, that's Chattanooga, Tennessee. In the upper right, that's Nashville, Tennessee. Lower left, that's the state capital in Texas. That's Austin, Texas. Lower right, that big protest there is Columbia, South Carolina. Check that out. Here's Mississippi. Here's Hattiesburg, Mississippi in the lower right there. Look how big that is. Upper left, that's Little Rock, Arkansas. Upper right, that's Wichita, Kansas. Lower left, that's beloved Oklahoma City. So three times in 10 months now, we've had this big tent, peaceful protest movement against Trump, against this president trying to assume the powers of a king. And the breadth of what people have been able to build, the geographic spread of where people are organized, the sheer number of protests at each of these just goes up and up and up. But even in a deliberately decentralized, far-flung thing like this, where there's, you know, we got 50 states, but we had more than 3,300 protests. Even in a decentralized, far-flung thing like this, there are still the places where just the sheer number of people in one place is overwhelming. Organizers say this weekend's flagship No Kings protest in St. Paul, which you see there on the lower left, they say that was the largest demonstration of any kind in the history of the state of Minnesota. biggest protest of any kind ever in that state. Los Angeles in the upper left there was huge. Boston upper right there. That was huge, which was all the more impressive because there were more than 160 different no Kings protests in Massachusetts all at the same time. And Massachusetts isn't that big a state, but Boston still had nearly 200,000 people turnout at that one no Kings protest alone. Boulder, Colorado, lower right there. That was big as well. Boulder, Colorado was big, as was Denver, Colorado, which you see in the upper right there. And again, that is particularly impressive given that Denver and Boulder are only 30 miles apart. But both kings simultaneously, both cities simultaneously had huge no-kings protests. Upper left there, look at that sea of people in Chicago, Illinois. Chicago, you would expect them to turn out numbers like that after that city fought back so hard against the attack on that city by Trump's ICE agents this year. San Francisco in the lower left there was huge. Lower right there, that's Minneapolis. And again, the size of the turnout in Minneapolis and on the other side of the river in St. Paul, where they had the largest demonstration in state history, both of those things happening on the same day. It's just very impressive. Philadelphia was really big. Philadelphia had been the flagship protest at an earlier No Kings, But look at how many people turned out in Philly for this one. San Diego was really big. Look at that lower right. Look how many people in San Diego. Washington, D.C. is lower left there. That was big. In D.C., some people from the No Kings protest marched to a military base where Trump administration officials, Trump cabinet officials have been taking over military housing for themselves. So people at No Kings in D.C. made some noise there this weekend, reminding those folks in Trump's cabinet that even though they have looted those houses for themselves from the military, those are not their houses. Upper left, you're looking at New York City. The crowd was so large in New York City this weekend, even the New York Times had to begrudgingly concede that the New York City protests stretched for more than a mile on either side of Times Square. But again, it's not just that there were some really large protests and that the collective number of people protesting was one of the largest protests in American history ever. It's also the sheer number of places in which Americans were willing to turn out. So like in New York, for example, yes, there was that massive protest in New York City. But you know what? There were 150 no-king's protests all over New York State. I mean, here, just as a sampling, here's Albany in the lower right and Rochester in the lower left and Plattsburgh in the upper right and Buffalo, New York. In the great state of Georgia, there was a huge protest and march in Atlanta, which you might expect. But would you expect that there'd be 62 different No Kings protests all over the state of Georgia? In addition to Atlanta, here's Savannah and Sandy Springs and Decatur. In Arizona, there were surprisingly gigantic No Kings protests in Scottsdale, for example, but there were more than 70 protests statewide in Arizona. In some of these places, it was 95 degrees on Saturday. But here was Scottsdale and Mesa and Phoenix and Tempe and Tucson and Surprise, Arizona, which is one of the places they've been trying to put a huge Trump prison camp. The great state of Wisconsin had over 100 No Kings protests, including really big ones in Madison and in Milwaukee, but also in places like Greenfield and Shorewood and Brookfield and Eau Claire and the famously conservative city of Waukesha, Wisconsin. And the town of Dodgeville, which is west of Madison, Wisconsin. Dodgeville has about 4,000 people. In Dodgeville, more than 10% of the whole town showed up for the Dodgeville No Kings. And it was cold. New Jersey had more than 65 No Kings protests. Here's a look at Camden and Newton and Trenton and Toms River. Indiana, I mentioned Evansville before in southern Indiana. Indiana had more than 65 No Kings protests. Here's Indianapolis and Henderson and South Bend and Bloomington and Valparaiso and Zionsville. Virginia had more than 100 No Kings protests. Here's a look at Blacksburg and Charlottesville and Harrisonburg and Roanoke and Alexandria and Richmond. Pennsylvania also had more than 100 No Kings protests. Here was Bloomsburg, Pennsylvania and Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh was huge. And Lancaster Pennsylvania and Pottstown PA There was a lot of attention this weekend to the No Kings protest that happened near the president weird like gilded Florida palace where he both lives and also charges strangers money to be members at his house Very weird. But that Palm Beach No Kings protest in Florida was dramatic because it's the site of the president's home. But, you know, the No Kings protests were also pretty dramatic in Miami and in Naples and in Coco and in Orlando and in Fort Lauderdale. I mean, there were more than 120 No Kings protests across Red State, Florida this weekend. One of the places where the local press reported a steep increase in participation compared to previous anti-Trump and No Kings protests was in Hagerstown, Maryland. Look at this turnout in Hagerstown. They got something like 3000 people at the public square in Hagerstown on Saturday. And in Hagerstown, the banner for their protest wasn't just no kings. It was no kings, no camps. And that's because it's just outside Hagerstown where the Trump administration is trying to put one of their giant Trump prison camps to hold thousands of people indefinitely and without trial. And Hagerstown has been and the rest of Maryland has been been trying as hard as they can to stop it. So that led to kind of an interesting local dynamic. In Maryland, unlike in every other state where people were just expected to go to whatever No Kings protest was nearest to them, in Maryland, a grassroots group called the Maryland Coalition to Stop the Camps asked people in Maryland, Maryland residents, to come from all over the state, specifically to Hagerstown, to show opposition to this particular prison camp that Trump is trying to put just outside that town. So it was no kings, no camps in Hagerstown, Maryland. And I got to say, there's a piece of that story that is worth watching right now, now that Kristi Noem has been ousted as Trump's Homeland Security Secretary, and this new guy, the former Oklahoma Senator Mark Wayne Mullen, is taking over. One of the things that has emerged about these warehouse purchases they're making for the Trump prison camps is that for some reason, the Trump administration appears to be eager to wildly overpay for these warehouses that they're buying, even before they start spending to convert them into prison camps. So like in Salt Lake City, they paid nearly 50 percent more than the property appeared to be worth. This warehouse facility was assessed at roughly ninety seven million dollars. For some reason, the Trump administration decided they wanted to pay over one hundred and forty five million dollars for it. Why is that? Roxbury, New Jersey. The warehouse they bought there was assessed at sixty two million dollars. The Trump administration came in and offered them one hundred and twenty nine million dollars. More than double what you'd expect to pay for it. One of the warehouses they bought in Georgia was valued just last year at twenty six million dollars. The Trump administration came in and bought it for $129 million. Assessed at $26 million. They came in and paid $129 million. What's going on there? What's going on there? Well, I will just point out two other things that are going on that might shed a little bit of light on this ultimately. Number one, Washington Post obtained an internal memo that apparently circulated last week, the day after Mark Wayne Mullen was sworn in as the new head of Homeland Security. That memo reportedly said that the process of turning these warehouses into Trump prison camps is going to be slowed down, that the proposals for these facilities are going to be revised, that they're going to start incorporating feedback from stakeholders, whatever that means, before they move ahead with these Trump prison camps. Why is that? Why are they slowing down? What's up with that? Well, turns out simultaneously we have learned that there's a new inspector general investigation into alleged corruption at the Department of Homeland Security. The soliciting and handling of contracts, quote, including the involvement of former Secretary Kristi Noem and her de facto chief of staff, Corey Lewandowski. There was already an internal audit that had been sparked in the department for some reason. But now on top of that, there's a new and apparently quite urgent, quite aggressive investigation, which apparently included investigators searching the offices of one Homeland Security official last week, an official who had been reportedly placed in her DHS job by Corey Lewandowski and Kristi Noem. After NBC News recently reported that Corey Lewandowski reportedly sought multi-million dollar payments from companies that were contracting with Homeland Security, including specifically companies that operate immigration prisons. He was seeking multimillion dollar payments for himself from those companies. As he was acting as the de facto chief of staff at that agency, including an unusual degree of oversight of contracts. I mean, Mr. Lewandowski denies this, but Democratic members of Congress have now opened their own investigation into what may have been going on there. So I'm just you know, you put these things together. I'm just going to say, hey, you guys, anybody wondering why it is that they slapped an extra 60, 80, 100 million dollars on top of the price tag for these Trump prison camp warehouses they're buying in multiple states? Through totally opaque processes that make no financial sense whatsoever on their face? Yeah, you guys maybe want to slow that down a sec? 3,000 people in the Hagerstown, Maryland public square would like you to slow that down for sure. Social Circle Georgia town officials put a lock on the water meter at the warehouse the Trump administration is trying to turn into a prison there. I think they'd like you to slow it down a little bit. Take another look. The city council in Salt Lake City, Utah, just voted to cap the amount of water they'd be allowed to use at the warehouse. They want to be a huge prison there as well. That's one where they appear to have overpaid $48 million for that warehouse for no explicable reason. Yeah, maybe they'd like you to slow that down, take another look at that one as well. Why'd they overpay for all these things in such a rush? Why'd they overpay by tens of millions of dollars at one of these things after another? Who made off with all of that money? whose pockets just got stuffed with the tens of millions of dollars in taxpayer money that is unaccounted for in almost all of these transactions. Yeah, you think you might want to slow it down a little bit? That stink is what you think it is. It smells like corruption, which you know what? Kings and dictators on their golden toilets are quite famous for. And here's something else to keep an eye on. In coming days this week, the Trump administration is going to try to make its most radical move yet against immigrants and against the Constitution in order to get at immigrants. This week, they're going to argue before the Supreme Court that when the Constitution says anyone born in this country is an American, they're going to argue this week at the Supreme Court that the Constitution doesn't really mean that, even though that's what it plainly says. And you'll see this headlines as the birthright citizenship case. In my experience, nobody who's not a lawyer instinctively knows what the words birthright citizenship mean. What this case is, what they're going to be arguing this week, the whole idea of birthright citizenship is that from the beginning in this country, anybody born in this country has been an American by virtue of the fact that they were born here. It's a core part of what makes America America, and it's in the Constitution. The Trump administration is trying to change that, and they're going to try to change it this week. What they want instead is for you not to be an American by virtue of the fact that you were born here. Instead, they want a new test. They want to assess the allegiance, the loyalty of a person's parents before they decide if that person who was born here in this country can be considered really an American, really a citizen. I mean, before, just to put this in perspective, before this current experience we are having right now with the Trump administration trying to build, you know, in Hagerstown, Maryland and Social Circle, Georgia and Salt Lake City and all these other places. Before this experience we're having now where they're trying to build these huge Trump prison camps to hold people without trial indefinitely. Before this, the last time we had massive domestic prison camps in this country to hold people indefinitely and without trial. The last time we did something like this was in World War II, when the U.S. government locked up Japanese Americans for years, regardless of their citizenship. On the theory that their race alone made them dangerous and justified putting them in what were, effectively, concentration camps, even though they weren't called that. Well, now today, Japanese American groups and experts on Japanese American incarceration during World War Two, they've been filing friend of the court briefs in this Supreme Court case ahead of the oral arguments in the birthright citizenship case this week. Law professor Eric Muller of the University of North Carolina is a nationally recognized expert on what happened to Japanese Americans during the war. He has written four books on the incarceration of Japanese Americans during World War Two. He has submitted a friend of the court brief in which he explains sort of patiently that even in World War Two, even when we were so panicked about the loyalties and the allegiances of whole huge swaths of our population, so much so that we effectively created a concentration camp system to lock up an entire ethnic group for years on the basis of how scared we were about their supposed loyalties and allegiances. Even then, even when citizens of Japan, who we had locked up in those camps, had babies here inside those camps, even then there was no controversy at all about the fact that those babies born in American concentration camps to citizens of another country, those babies born here were definitely American. even beyond that, even when people had renounced their American citizenship during World War II. And as people who had renounced their citizenship, we had them locked up in prison camps here. If those people who renounced their citizenship had babies here while they were in prison here, there was no question, no controversy at all that their babies born here in prison were Americans by virtue of the fact that they were born here. And as Professor Mueller points out to the court, in this friend of the court brief. Even beyond that, it gets even worse and weirder. Because in World War II, the United States went so far as to go out into the world to grab a whole bunch of people who had no ties to the United States of America whatsoever. We were at war with Japan. Japan had lots of American prisoners of war. And the United States went to Latin America and seized people of Japanese descent from Peru. It forced these people to come to the United States to be put in prison here so that these people could potentially be used in prisoner swaps with Japan. These people had no connection to the United States of America. They were Peruvians of Japanese descent. They were only in this country because they were taken here. They were forced against their will to be here. But still, even them, those people with no connection to America, when they inevitably had babies in American prison camps during World War II even their babies uncontroversially were considered to be American citizens Because those little kids were born in American prisons which means they were born in America so they were American Even then, without controversy and without question. But right now, under Donald Trump, Donald Trump, who has entrusted the wise and prudent stewardship of immigration matters to geniuses like Corey Lewandowski and Kristi Noem and now Mark Wayne Mullen, who's maybe having to pull up a bit on the new Trump prison camp archipelago for immigrants because, wait a second, aren't we missing hundreds of millions of dollars somewhere? And has anybody seen Corey? I mean, now, right now, under these geniuses this week, they are going to try to tell the United States Supreme Court that the Constitution has been wrong all this time. And even though people born to Peruvians who were being held in U.S. prison camps against their will because they were of Japanese descent, because we wanted to use them as chits in a prisoner exchange, even though their babies were considered to be American because they were born in America. The whole history of this has all just been gotten wrong all along. And they're going to try to tell the Supreme Court this week that Donald Trump is actually the only one who really understands the way this is supposed to be done. And so now from here on out, regardless of what we've done in the past, regardless of what we did even during World War Two, when we were really stressed out about this issue, regardless of how we have handled this through the entire history of our nation back to its founding, that's all been wrong. And Donald Trump is the only one who knows how to do it right. And from here on out, it will be Donald Trump who will neutrally and with an even hand assess your loyalties and your allegiances before he decides if you're really an American. Because it doesn't matter if you're born here. He's going to pick who's an American and who's not. It is just incredible that they are dragging that stinking heap up to the door of the Supreme Court this very week. The same week that more than 8 million Americans from every single corner of this country came out full tilt and at full volume to say no kinks. No kinks, no thrones, no golden toilets, no crowns, no kings, no camps. That's where we are. That's where we stand. Game on. This podcast is brought to you by WISE, the app for international people using money around the globe. With the Wise account, you can send, spend, and receive in over 40 currencies with no markups or hidden fees. Whether you're sending pesos across the pond, spending reyes in Rio, or getting paid in dollars for your side gig, you'll get the mid-market exchange rate on every transaction. Plus, most transfers arrive in less than 20 seconds. Join 15 million customers. Be smart. Get Wise. Download the Wise app. Terms and conditions apply. If you're a parent and want to help set up your child for success, then IXL is a right for your family. As an effective and affordable online learning program, IXL covers math, language arts, science, and social studies using interactive practice problems for kids from pre-K to 12th grade. Listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at IXL.com slash 20. Visit IXL.com slash 20 to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster Nibbles in our yard for me? Because I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires. I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet Nibbles after his untimely end. Nibbles, gone too soon. May he scurry in peace. Hey, sorry about your pet, but I just wire stuff. Nibbles would have loved you like a brother. Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects at Angie.com. The military calls them AWACS, A-W-A-C-S. A-W-A-C-S. It stands for Airborne Warning and Control Systems. This is one. It's called the E3 Sentry. It costs about $300 million. It's called a Sentry because it functions basically as eyes in the sky, that big dome on top, that thing that sits on top of the plane that makes it look like not a normal plane. That's a 30-foot-long rotating radar. It can detect anything airborne within 250 miles from the surface of the Earth all the way up to the stratosphere. We do not have a ton of planes like these, and they are very, very, very expensive. But AWACS are just key to American air dominance in faraway war zones. Well, on Friday, Iran blew one up. Iran carried out a targeted attack on the Prince Sultan Air Base in Saudi Arabia. That attack wounded a dozen U.S. troops. It also destroyed this vital and rare and expensive and strategically critical radar aircraft. that we don't have very many of. How did it know how to find it? Why wasn't it protected? Why was it out in the open? Over the weekend, Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelensky, told NBC News that it wasn't Iran that figured out where that vital U.S. aircraft was sitting there unprotected. It was Russia. In an interview with NBC, Zelensky shared his own briefing from Ukraine intelligence. It showed that Russian satellites had taken images of that air base in Saudi Arabia, not once, not twice, but three times in the week leading up to the strike that injured all those American troops and destroyed that critical plane. Since the start of this war in Iran, we have seen report after report, citing U.S. officials and British officials, even German officials, all saying that Russia is helping Iran target U.S. assets, helping Iran target and attack and kill and wound U.S. troops. So how is the United States roaring back at Russia for that? How are we getting them to back off? How are we making them pay for doing that? Not at all. We're not doing anything quite the opposite. President Donald Trump has instead inexplicably twice cut sanctions on Russian oil. And then this weekend, Trump decided to additionally give Russia a big new gift. The U.S. has imposed a blockade on all sorts of fuel to the island nation of Cuba for a couple of months now. But this weekend, for some reason, who knows why, Trump decided to let a Russian oil tanker go right through the blockade, sail on through, unmolested, to bring oil to Cuba anyway. I mean, Trump's war on Iran has been one question mark after another about the most serious stuff in the world. Tonight, not only is the Strait of Hormuz still unsafe for shipping, but Iran appears to have hit a fully loaded Kuwaiti oil tanker in the port of Dubai. The crew were reportedly unharmed, but they hit the tanker. Meanwhile, this weekend, thousands of troops from the U.S. Army's elite 82nd Airborne Division, the paratroopers, arrived in the Middle East, which means there are more than 50,000 American troops in the region. In the region, Trump reportedly wants to send 10,000 more. The latest deployments include large numbers of special operators, including Navy SEALs. What are they there for? What is Trump going to tell them to do? What is the point of this war at this time? Joining us now is Ben Rhodes, former Deputy National Security Advisor for President Obama. Ben, it's nice to see you. Thanks very much for being with us tonight. Hey, Rachel. So a lot is happening all at once. I feel like there's a few different things I want to ask you about. One is what is going on with the weird favorable treatment to Russia when the intelligence and the open source reporting seems to be getting stronger and stronger about Russia really playing a pivotal role in Iran's ability to hurt American assets and American personnel. But also what's happening, and I'll ask you this first, just with the strategic rationale for what we're doing, the president's incoherence in terms of being able to explain what he's trying to do. and how that matches up with what he's actually doing, which is sending lots more troops. Well, the reality is I just don't think he knows what he's doing. It seems like he launched this war thinking that Iran would capitulate quickly and he'd have some quick win like he did when he took out and abducted Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela. And anybody that has done any war games or looked at Iran would know that that would not be the case, that this is a deep regime that would resist and it would lash out across the region as they have. And the war thus far has been a strategic disaster. Rachel, I mean, let's just talk about Russia since you teed it up in your introduction there. Vladimir Putin benefits because the price of oil is up. That is money in his pocket because that's what Russia relies on for revenue. Russia has been given a waiver from U.S. sanctions so they can sell more oil at a higher price and make even more money. The Ukrainians, in an effort to be good citizens, are sharing some of their own drone defenses with the Gulf Arabs because they're getting bombarded by the same Iranian drones were used in Ukraine. That's not good for Ukraine. That lessens their defenses. The U.S. has become completely disinterested in pursuing a peace settlement in Ukraine, certainly one that is on any kind of favorable terms to the Ukrainians, because we're consumed by this war. And then meanwhile, Vladimir Putin can now point to the rest of the world and say, what's the difference? The U.S. also attacks countries on illegal wars of aggression that are unprovoked. So kind of across the board, economically in Ukraine and geopolitically, Vladimir Putin is winning this war in Iran. And the U.S. is getting really no benefit. We've replaced one supreme leader with a younger one who's probably even more radical than his father. We've convinced the Iranians that their only survival is probably to try to pursue a nuclear weapon on the back end of this war. And the Iranians are currently running the Strait of Hormuz, which is 20 percent of the world's fossil fuel energy, like a toll road and are charging to get oil out and gas out. So you tell me where the strategic benefit is for the United States. Ben, The Wall Street Journal is reporting tonight that President Trump has told again, this is a thing that Trump has reportedly said. So as far as I'm concerned, things he says have no value. The only reason to talk about them is to try to figure out how they match up with things he's actually doing. While he is sending thousands of troops to the region, including now not only paratroopers, but special forces, including Navy SEALs, Trump has also reportedly, according to The Wall Street Journal, told aides tonight that he is willing to end the war in Iran, even if the Strait of Hormuz remains largely closed. So the Strait of Hormuz was open before the war. It will now stay closed and be operated, as you put it, I guess, as the kind of toll road that you were just describing. Trump is willing to have that be the outcome of his war. But there are these thousands of Americans that he has put over there. And my sense of watching Trump in various national security crises that have erupted since in both of his terms is that he doesn't tend to send troop places without using them. He doesn't tend to use them as a bluff to just put them there and then take them take them out without having them do something. Do you have any sense of what he's planning on having them do? There really two or three things that this ground troops could be doing One they could be trying to secure the remaining nuclear stockpile the nuclear fuel the enriched uranium that the Iranians have That's in a largely in place called Isfahan that is in the center of Iran. So not a simple mission to go in there and get highly enriched uranium. Two, they could be a part of some effort to open the Strait of Hormuz. That's incredibly difficult. Right. This is mountainous, difficult terrain. The Iranians would contest it. And then third, they could try to seize Karg Island that Trump has talked about, which is key to Iranians ability to export its energy resources or some of these other islands in the Strait of Hormuz. But then there they're also sitting ducks, too. It's not like the Iranians wouldn't be firing missiles and drones at them. So all three of these missions carry great risk. Like you, Rachel, this reminds me of the buildup in Iran, where as he's sending all these troops, he's saying, oh, no, we want to negotiate. Well, actually, he was sending troops for the purpose of launching this war. We saw the same thing in Venezuela. So I just don't know why you would be sending the 82nd Airborne, all these special forces, if you weren't going to use them. I guess you could say it's part for leverage and some negotiation. But the Iranians don't seem intent on negotiating with Trump. They've been bombed twice in the middle of negotiations. If he were somehow to leave the Strait of Hormuz closed, then we suffer all the global economic impacts, the potential catastrophe to our own economy. He doesn't seem to understand that either. He keeps saying that we don't use the Strait of Hormuz. That fundamentally misunderstands energy markets. It may be that more of that oil and gas goes to Europe and Asia, but look at the price of the pump, right? It impacts us too. So we're dealing with either an escalatory cycle that he can't get out of or just a tremendous amount of incompetence because he should be trying to negotiate the reopening of the strait as the pathway to ending the war. Ben Rhodes, former Deputy National Security Advisor. Ben, really helpful to have you here tonight. This is a seriously muddy situation, but your clarity is really helpful. Thank you. Thanks, Rachel. All right. Much more news ahead. Stay with us. If you're a parent and want to help set up your child for success, then IXL is a right for your family. 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The PreNuvo Whole Body Scan gives you a comprehensive look at your health, screening for over 500 conditions, including many solid tumors as early as stage one. High quality imaging, no radiation, no contrast. Book your scan today at PreNuvo.com. That's P-R-E-N-U-V-O dot com. Gain clarity, confidence, and peace of mind with PreNuvo. Invest in your health today. Visit PreNuvo.com. That's P-R-E-N-U-V-O dot com. The first No Kings was June last year. More than 5 million people took part. The second No Kings, four months later, was October. More than 7 million people showed up. This weekend was the third No Kings. Organizers say the count was more than 8 million people. Now, the organizers of No Kings have already announced what they're planning to do next. After those three gargantuan events in 10 months, the next one's going to be something very different. And it is set for May 1st, instead of another day of record-breaking protests and marches. This time, No Kings organizers and hundreds of unions and other groups nationwide are planning what they're calling a nationwide general strike on May 1st. A general strike, as in no work, no school, no shopping. Friday, May 1st. Joining us now is Ezra Levin, a co-founder of Indivisible, one of the No Kings organizers. Ezra, I know you have not slept enough. And so you are forgiven for rambling or not making sense at this point. But I know it was a ton of work. How do you think things went on Saturday? Rachel, I can't hardly imagine how it could have gone better. I mean, you've covered it earlier in this program, the joy and the power on display in thousands of communities across this country, patriotic Americans showing up for their constitutional rights and demonstrating that democracy will reassert itself. It was incredible. And that was half the goal was to get as many people there on one day in an unexpected number of places. But the other half of the goal you're covering here, which is what comes next. In terms of what comes next, you guys are getting very specific about it. I understand that you guys have a mass call, a nationwide call scheduled for tomorrow, talking about what's next after this weekend's No Kings Day protests, before what's going to happen on May 1st. What's the point of that call? What are you asking people to do between now and the May 1st general strike? That's right. So if you go to indivisible.org, you can go and register for this call to get up to speed on what's coming next. But as you mentioned, this isn't just another protest. As important as protest is, this is modeled on what we learned in the Twin Cities. They had a day of truth and action in January when they were pushing back against the ICE goons who were terrorizing their city. And the Day of Truth of Action in the Twin Cities saw thousands of clergy and teachers and nurses and community leaders linking arms with no school, no business, no shopping. Because as important as it is to show up on a Saturday in millions, exercising your economic mind is a key tactic that successful anti-authoritarian movements use. And when we get to the midterms, I think we're going to get out the vote. I think we're going to crush the regime in the midterms. And I also believe Donald Trump will not go quietly. He will try to sabotage those election results. And when that happens, we have to be prepared to use that economic might. And so May Day is a chance for us to replicate what we saw in the Twin Cities nationwide to match the breadth of mobilizing that we saw through No Kings with the depth of organizing that we've seen in the Twin Cities. I think this is an important tactical escalation that is going to grow our power and allow us to actually win and protect the results of the midterm elections. May 1st, general strike, mass call tomorrow, talking about what's next and planning for that. Ezra Levin, co-founder of Indivisible. I hope you get some sleep this week. I know sort of no rest for the wicked, but thanks very much for joining us tonight, Ezra. It's good to see you. Thank you, Rachel. We'll be right back. Stay with us. It was last August when a gunman who was all weirded out about COVID vaccines decided to shoot at the CDC in Atlanta. That gunman killed a police officer, broke 150 windows and terrified the people who work at the CDC, sprayed glass shards all over CDC offices. Again, that was in August when that happened. Now the Associated Press is out with this headline. Quote, seven months later, the government still hasn't fixed CDC's shot up windows. What counts as a sign that a part of the government is being abandoned, if not destroyed, by Donald Trump? Over at the CDC, they're not even replacing the windows there that are full of bullet holes. That seems like a sign. Also, have a look at the Federal Department of Education. The Trump administration can't legally shut it down without Congress allowing it to. But Congress has nevertheless gotten rid of basically half the people who work there and has shut down or farmed out its major programs. Now, Trump is forcing them to give up the building that has been the Department of Education's headquarters for decades, just walking away from that building. The American public consistently says they do not want Trump to destroy the U.S. Department of Education, but he is destroying it anyway. And now, as of this week, its headquarters will be gone. That said, there's one federal agency that's just getting bigger and bigger under Donald Trump. And that, of course, is the sprawling, scandal-ridden Department of Homeland Security. Here's a heads up about that. There's been quite a bit of attention recently to the fact that the FBI and DOJ have been targeting elections administrators in multiple states. Most infamously, the FBI raid and Fulton County, Georgia's elections office in January, where they seized hundreds of thousands of ballots from the 2020 election. But here's something to keep an eye on, because we are now also seeing Homeland Security being used to target elections administration. And this is something worth keeping an eye on. A couple of weeks after that Fulton County raid, the White House ordered HSI, which is part of the Department of Homeland Security, to start working on elections issues. Then the Atlantic was first to report that HSI was conducting an investigation into the 2020 elections in the state of Arizona. Now, just a few days ago, CBS has reported that Minnesota elections officials have received a grand jury subpoena for Minnesota voter records as part of an investigation being run in part by the Department of Homeland Security. CBS also reports that DOJ is close to finalizing a deal to hand over whatever voter data it manages to get from the states to the Department of Homeland Security. Who knows what they will do with it? But if President Trump is looking for ways to use muscle, to use force, to mess with the November elections, to undermine trust, to scare people away or worse, then this might be the way he is doing it. It's not just the FBI they are using. It is not just weird Tulsi Gabbard lurking in the wings while the FBI is doing stuff. He is also using the Department of Homeland Security. His scandal ridden, utterly incompetent, controversial, fear inducing, flush with cash, department of everything and anything is being applied to the elections, too. Watch this space, please watch this space. That's going to do it for me for this minute. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued. Wake up to ZetBound Terzepatide, the first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity. ZetBound is an injectable prescription medicine that may help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. ZetBound should be used with a reduced-calorie diet and increased physical activity. ZetBound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. Z-Bound contains terzepatide and should not be used with other terzepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Z-Bound is safe and effective for use in children. Do not share needles or pens or reuse needles. 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Thank you.