Brothers' Trio?! Episode 17: Chat w/ Midlife Graig!

I'm Al from Iconic Baseball. >> And I'm Brian the High Pop Professor. Welcome to Brothers Duo. [screaming] >> All right, welcome everybody to our first ever episode of Brothers Trio uh with of course me, Brian, the High Pop Professor. Joining me as always, uh my brother iconic Al from Iconic Baseball. How you doing today, Al? >> I am well, Brian. Good to see you. And uh good to see you, Greg. >> Thank you. Good to be seen. Yes, absolutely. And joining us, of course, we have Greg from Midlife Cards joining us today as a special guest on our Brothers Trio episode today. So, how you doing today, Greg? I'm fantastic. I mean, I've been lobbying for this opportunity for about a year because I I was just telling my wife, she whenever I record, she goes, "Who are you going to record with today?" And they go, "Actually, I'm really excited about this one. I've been watching these guys. I love both their channels. I love their brothers duo segment. I've been seeing if you ever take if you ever want a guest, I want to be the guy. And so I literally I woke up this morning excited because I've been looking forward to this. So ju truly genuinely I'm pumped. >> That's awesome. Greg, you are the glue of the community and uh you you are our honorary brother from another mother. So welcome and thanks for coming on. >> I appreciate all of that very much. >> Agreed. Agreed. I think um so there a couple things I wanted to to talk about on the on the docket today. You know, it's a shame there's actually nothing going on in the hobby. It's a shame that we have nothing, you know, no big news or anything to share. Um but but but I I do have to say that um that I just purchased your book today on Amazon and >> Thank you. >> I can't wait to get it in. Can't wait to dig into that and to read it. And I'm just sad that I'm I'm not going to be uh going to to Strongsville, Independent, whatever it's called now um to to actually get that signed in person because I definitely want you to sign this copy. So, >> well, we'll see each other at some point. I mean, you know, we'll see each other. We've seen each other before. >> You might be able to uh TTM him also. >> I would be happy I would be happy to to to do a TTM of the book with you. That would be fantastic. >> That might be the most exciting TTM return ever. That would be fantastic. Um, funny, I actually just sent out a TTM. I I don't do very many of them, but uh I just sent one for uh to try to get Will Clark on a Diamond King autograph. >> Will the Thrill? >> Yeah, Will the Thrill. Been waiting forever to see like a nice 92 Diamond King pop up and one just hasn't for a long time. And I was just like, you know what? I'm gonna take matters into my own hands. I'm gonna send him one. So, I sent the What did I send in? It was an 86 tops traded uh rookie card. I also sent in the 92 Diamond King and the 95 Diamond King with him on the uh on the Rangers because 92 had him depicted as a giant. So, >> well, I mean, growing up in Northern California, I I saw Will Clark a lot and I TTM will Clark as a kid. So, it would have been the 1990 Upper Deck. >> Uh I I sent to the stadium and I got that back. Still in my collection today. Okay. So, I've had a Will Clark TTM auto for many years. Uh I think an argument for the Hall of Fame personally. >> He's in the short list. >> He was that guy like, you know, he was always going to hit 300. He was kind of like a a Mark Grace type of hitter, you know, you just knew he was going to be steady and he was going to hit 300 and he was just a dude. >> Yeah. >> Good. >> And then he was clutch in that the uh playoffs year against the Cubs. He hit like three or four home runs in the >> NLCS and I mean the guy was a stud. So >> yeah. No, he he was actually I heard a funny story about him and uh Greg Maddox. Apparently, Will Clark is the reason why Greg Maddox always used his glove to cover his mouth when he did mound meetings because Will Clark read his lips, [laughter] saw him say fastball, and he knew that was coming during a mound meeting and so he he he took him yard, hit a home run off of him, and from that moment onward he always covered his mouth. >> I've heard that story, too. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, there's a connection there. >> Yeah. But yeah, the book I mean I'm really excited. I think that people I think that if people are readers at all and they're card collectors at all, I I really think people will like it. It's it's I mean, who doesn't love stories? And I have stories from about 1986 until uh late 2025. Like there was a story that happened while I was in the process of writing it that happened and I'm like this has got to go in. like this this just happened like I got to put this in. So I I think people will like it. Um I love stories. My episode that I I'm posting tomorrow uh as we're recording this on Sunday, March 1st, so it will be the second uh is is basically what's your favorite hobby memory and reading some of the stories that people shared are just awesome. So I love that stuff. >> That's that's fantastic. You know, I I think that's one of the great things about having a YouTube channel is that we get to go on and share stories about whether what, you know, our growing up with, you know, Sean Casey in the hobby or or, you know, the trip to the card shop and and I mean, you know, the story we told last time about Steve from Big Save. I mean, all this kind of stuff. Um, you know, but but you're you're right, like not everyone has an opportunity to share those. And anyway, it's just it's going to be great to read about about some of your stories and I can't wait to get my copy in. I'm excited. And I had a similar situation to you. I have a brother who collected growing up and my dad collected. And so it's a very similar situation to you guys. And so some of it is the three of us. Some of it's just me. Some of it's me and my dad. Um we we spent like four hours last summer. I Streamyard recorded him and me just talking, just asking him questions about different things. And I I would refer back to it. And I took I took like 20 pages of notes as I was asking him questions and about his memory and then connecting the dots with my memory and and a lot of it too is it's kind of memoirish where it's like what was happening in my life and how that impacted how I was collecting or what I was collecting or that I was collecting and the and and and the overlap of how it was a crutch at times through life and and I think a lot of relatable stuff, you know, with a lot of people that um I don't know, it's just fun to be able to kind of share some of those details with people because a couple of the things are stories that I've shared. You know, I I've shared stories about how I got my Fleer Clemens update, but there's much more background and what was happening and why that mattered. And so it it's just uh I was excited to do it and the fact that anybody else will spend any time to read it makes me feel good. So >> I think too as as a as another family that was attending shows in the early 90s, mid 90s, late 90s and you know I I know the exact kind of show you're talking about where they had door prizes or raffles and so I remember hearing that story. I can't wait to read all about it. But >> it was a massive card. Still is a massive card. I picked up my copy last year. >> Yeah. >> So, >> yeah, mine's still it's sitting in the case behind me. So, I mean, it's in a one-touch. People are like, "Are you going to grade it?" I was like, "That would just make me mad. It would taint it." >> It's like I would I would get it and they'd give it a seven. Yeah. And then I would be like I would look at it differently. Like, as far as I'm concerned, it's a 10. So, I don't care. >> Yeah. To you, that's what that card is. I I do think that when you grade a card, it it it becomes something different. I made a video about this a little while ago, but it's it's now no longer just that card. It's it's a specific it's it's filed away in a specific hierarchy that exists and and whether it's right or not, people think of graded cards as being, you know, fungeible and they treat them all the same. They lump them all together as being oh this is a PSA7 of this. This is a PSA 8 of that and and they they tie the value to it but um to that number but um you know as we just saw in Teapot's video where he was going on the carousel cracking out that griffy and sending it to you know all over the world. [laughter] >> Yeah. The message from that is maybe they shouldn't be funible. Maybe we shouldn't look at graded cards that way because >> Yeah, that's my question for you, Al because you know you've said that your collection is like I think you've said is like 97% complete, right? Like you've said volume >> by volume it's 97 Yeah. Not obviously there's some topheavy cards that are missing, but like when you see something like that and you've got a bunch of cards already in holders >> or some big cards that you're looking like when you see that video, like what do you think about your existing collection and then the future cards? And then I want to ask you guys for advice based on this situation and based on something we were just saying off camera. If I was sitting on a lot of tens and a lot of five figure cards, I would be very nervous. But I'm not sitting on a lot of tens and I'm don't have any five figure cards. So the way I collect, you know, I just want a nice presenting copy of the card that makes me happy, that makes me satisfied. And so for me, you know, a Rogers Hornsby 33 Gaudy graded in a 2.5, that's what it is. I mean, I don't care if it's a three. I don't care if it's a 1.5. Mine happens to be a 2.5. like it it's not going to matter uh when it comes to grades for those kind of cards. But if you have a PSA 10 gold griffy refrator that I don't know if PSA 10s get taken down off of their high horse in in the coming years and decades to where they aren't getting the premium they are or these inserts that previous to this latest boom in the hobby never carried that kind of value. we if we all we have to do is zoom out in a in a card ladder chart eight years ago and you'll see these cards were never valued that high. Uh which tells me that all we need is an economic contraction for these cards to come back down. Maybe they touch the high range of where they were, but they're going to go back to the scene of the crime where they broke out. >> It's it's it's a technical thing. You break out of a range eventually once the boom ends, you're going to come back to the scene of the crime. So, these cards will come back to the scene of the crime where they broke out. Um, and then they'll probably, you know, rebounce and then go up from there. But, there's going to be a big corre correction, I believe, in those kinds of cards >> on on 10 specifically, >> high-end modern very, very, you know, we're talking five figure cards, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, which there are suddenly a lot of five figure cards. I watch some of uh you know Jeremy Lee's you know auction ending stuff and on some of these big auctions I mean they're like 50 60 $70,000 cards. I'm like oh my gosh like this is this is this is not a game anymore not a hobby for some people anymore. >> Yeah. Yeah, I think we've been lulled into a very uh different feeling of, oh, these cards are just more expensive now and they're always going to be more expensive, but we haven't since this latest crescendo in value, we haven't been through an economic contraction. That hasn't happened in in 16 years, 17 years. So, we still have yet to see what will happen to these cards that have, you know, exponentially risen in price. Uh well, you know, how how durable is that rate, that raise in price? >> Yeah. So, okay. So, let me I got to admit something to you guys. Um, you I would say and and I'm not I'm not just pandering right now. I'm being dead serious. The two of you have probably had I mean, Orlando, a collector's dream. Mookie Chilson and you two guys have had by far the biggest impact on how I collect. Like, it's not close. You four. And recently, Brian has just been beating me over the head with so many awesome '9s refractors of his Maddox cards that like I'm learning from watching his videos as he's admiring a card and showing how it came back from PSA and what the grade was and and he but I'm looking I'm going, well, I like that one. Let's write that one. You know, that ver that sat down and that you know and and like like and then you guys about a year ago were going on and on about how the 93 finest refractors are the 52 tops of modern and I'm like I I agree and I liked them but I was kind of like not in love with them. About two months ago, I went to a card show and there was a brand new graded uh 93 finest refractor Clemens and I I asked to look at I took it out of the case. I held it and I just looked at that shine and I was completely hypnotized and one of my biggest regrets was not buying that card that day. It was a fair price. >> Yeah. >> But like I I I keep thinking about that card and it it wasn't in an old case with a leading zero. It was a It was a freshly graded one with a fresh PSA, you know, slab and it is it was just it was gorgeous. And I can't I literally can't stop thinking about it. And so I've been wanting to get more and more into modern quote unquote modern, you know, post 1980 for a for a while. And then as I keep watching Brian's stuff, I watch all of Brian's episodes from start to finish. I watch all of them. I'm like, I think '9s refractors are like, that's where I want to go. So then it's like, well, who who do I want to collect? >> And and I don't think that it's going to be a single player. Like, it's not going to be just Greg Maddox. It's not going to be just Clemens. And Brian sent me a list and he helped me with some identifying cards to kind of target. And I went through and I researched some of those. So today, tonight, there's a card that's ending. And I've been waiting for this exact this exact card. Okay? And it's ending tonight. And and I need your guys' help. I'm being dead serious because this is gonna air after it ends. So it's a 1993 finest refractor. It's on eBay right now. Barry Bonds. Okay. It's in an eight, which is perfect because the nines are crazy and the tens are insane. So it's an eight and a lot of those have a lot of greening. I don't feel that this one does. And a lot of those are actually fairly off center. And this one's really well centered. So, it's centered. It's an eight. It's a fresh slab. It's like check, check, check. >> So, I'm looking through. That's Is that the one right there? Is that the exact one? >> I I already had it in my watch list. >> Okay. So, I'm one of the other 125 watchers and I have a Gixon Snipe set to to bid on it tonight. Okay. >> Yep. So, so the question I have for you guys, I'm being dead serious. I want it, but I don't want to be stupid about what I bid. Like, I don't want to mega bid because someone else might mega bid and then I get stuck paying, you know, $1,600 for a card. [clears throat] So, I I went through I went through card ladder >> and I went through all of the last sales of eights >> and there's like one that sold at like I could pull it up. I mean, I probably still have it as my >> most of them are probably just a hair under a thousand. >> Correct. >> Yeah. And then you I think you had one that was maybe 1,200 or something like that. >> Correct. That's exactly right. >> It's just from memory. >> Yeah. See, I'm asking the perfect people. So, the last one >> market. >> So, 950, 9:25, 1050, 11:25, 850, 8.25, and then that's all since last summer when they've gone crazy, right? So really the in the last series 825 850 1125 1050 925 950. So since September 8th they've all sold for at least 925. But to me this one is superior to all of those because this is a more freshly graded. It's a brand new slab. It's going to show the shine the best. It's centered. It doesn't have greening. So my question is what do I bid without being stupid to but I want to get it because to me this is the one that checks all the boxes. Do you agree Brian that that's a nice copy of it? >> It it's a wonderful copy. Uh my my my copy is also in an eight that was from my our dad's collection and I will say that nearly all of them it it has it presents very typical hulking pattern that you would expect to see. Um and but but you're correct with the centering. you're correct about the overall eye appeal. For what this card is, it's it's one of the nicest specimens you're ever going to find of it. And so I, you know, I I I wouldn't I wouldn't pay for a nine or a 10 price if it exhibited that kind of hulking pattern. And so you're exactly spot on. I don't feel that with 125 watchers on this card, which is I know >> absurd, by the way. >> It is. >> Um this card I I don't see it finishing under 1250. >> Okay. I don't see. Now, of course, this is gonna we'll probably drop this on Tuesday and so we'll go back and see exactly how wrong I am. Um, >> if you were to guess if you guys were to just guess, throw a dart at what you think it finishes at, what do you guys think it will finish at? And then I have a follow-up question. To me, it doesn't matter. Um, I I would look at it more from a psychological standpoint. We know what the range of of the sales are. You should ask yourself, what is the price that if this thing ends at that price and I don't get it that I'm I'm very disappointed? So get get that price in your mind of like, okay, say it ends at 956 and you bid 940. Would you be very disappointed if you didn't get that car for 956? >> Then do the same exercise at 97. 979 and then do the same exercise at 999. Then do the same exercise at $10.49 and do the same exercise at 1079 and and go through that and what is the price at which it would end without you getting it and you'd feel like you really damn it you like you really missed out on it and you would have paid that. So really you have to that's only a question you can answer. So bet bid a dollar higher than that price where you feel like damn it I would have paid that and I feel like I missed out on this thing. >> All right, Brian, how about you? You know, I'm I'm I I think I think right around 1300. >> Yeah, >> the market has has been rising steadily since last summer. >> I I think that the numbers that we've seen from last September, October, November, they've only been rising. Um I see no reason why this shouldn't continue on that trajectory. I think it's a one of the greatest presenting copies of one of the greatest cards of one of the greatest players. It's a Purto set. It's a Purto player. It's uh one of the nicest looking copies. Look, it's it's you know, listening to some of uh Victor, the rookie card specialist's material and how important rookie cards are and being the first in to to innovate and try something new. This set is the rookie card of all refractors in the hobby history. Mhm. >> I mean just in the significance of what that represents and the innovation uh to where the hobby has has traveled and has evolved since that happened. I mean this is only one year after they had invented the parallel with Tops Gold in '92 or Leaf black gold in '92, you know, and all of a sudden they they jumped up to chromium cards and then all of a sudden the refractor and no one had seen anything like it. You you just held one in your hand, you know, you held that Clemens. You know how these things hit. You know, no >> no image, you know, is is going to do justice >> to when you see that thing in the shine that it displays in person. >> Okay. So, let me provide you guys with a little bit more of a and and I love this is I mean, for me, this is like this is so much fun. So, let me ask you a follow-up question because we were just talking about teapot. We were just talking about grading. We were just talking about, you know, uh whether how much the the grade actually even matters, >> right? >> So, in the last 6 months, the nines have sold for at least 1920 at least. And in a nine. Now, there were four of them. Three of those four have a leading zero serial number, meaning they were graded in the 90s. They were graded in the 19. They were graded 30 years ago under completely different standards. So, I think it's fair to say that this eight is better than all three of those nines most likely. Now, we'd have to have them in hand to know. I looked at the picture, but all three of them, three of the four have the leading zero. So, those sold for at least$1920. Now, if there was no grading and we we laid the last four eights on the table and the last four nines on the table and there was no grading, they were all raw, I think you can make the argument that this is the nicest one. Now, there was one nine that was graded about a year ago. It had a nine-digit serial number, but it was an early nine-digit serial number. That one probably is better is my guess. There's probably like a little surface scuff or something that got at the eight instead of the nine [clears throat] >> since it wasn't the centering or the corner touches. >> So maybe one out of those eight is better than the one I'm looking at. But the only reason why this one we are saying 1300 instead of 1900 is because the dude who was off from Taco Bell that day and instead was grading at PSA that day said eight instead of nine. If it was nine, this would be over a $2,000 card. >> So, am I >> So, are I mean, that's that's the poison of I mean, this is a case study right here. Literally, it's the case study on how much should we care about the number. I mean, it does matter because if I had to move out of the card for whatever reason, like I bought a giant Maddox collection and I had to sell a bunch of stuff to pay for it, I would in that case, I would have to sell a card maybe. And and so to me, value always is kind of lingering because you never know what's going to happen in life. You know, maybe something happens and there's a medical issue or a car issue or a house issue or something. It always kind of matters, but but the grade I think matters less than it's ever mattered before. And I think Teapot's illustration, and he's just going to I'll say this I again I don't know what I'm allowed to say not say. Teapot and I are friendly. I like Tapod a lot. We text back and forth fairly frequently. >> I I I I love his takes particularly on the discrepancy between nines and tens and their values and it making no sense. I'm I'm a thousand% lock step with him. And I I just really enjoyed Can I just say I I really enjoyed watching Jeff Wilson squirm. Uh okay, just you know a little shot in Freud maybe >> because he has so much money tied up in numbers. >> Well, of course. And he's never going to say anything bad about PSA. He's never going to actually give you a straight take on it. But uh but when confronted with this, just watching that level of dis I don't know. There was a it was it was I'd be lying if I said it wasn't just a little satisfying. Just just a little. >> I I agree. But so so all I'm saying is I think your 13 I think that both of your advice is fantastic. Al, what is the amount where I would be like they could have it for that versus I'd be disappointed >> is the [clears throat] number I should go for? >> I would. Go ahead. >> I wouldn't pay I wouldn't pay over 12 or else you'd be chasing it because I think just economic conditions will take all these kinds of cards lower the next year. You'll have a better chance to buy it in a year. Uh these aren't the kinds of cards four figure cards to be chasing in my opinion right now. >> Um I'm not making any big purchases. I haven't in a while >> now. And and I I love that and respect that. And you're not the only person. I mean, Adam Splendid Sports, he's said for a while, he hasn't made any big purchases for a while. In fact, I mean, I I don't want to give anything away from he sold a big card that he bought a couple years ago and it just went through the roof and he he let it go because it just got so expensive. >> I'm sure at some point when he makes a video again, he'll show that. But I I I think that this is where the the blurring of the lines is right now is we don't really know how much the number matters, how much the recency of the serial number matters. Yeah. >> Are we in going to have a correction? Is this an infinite boom? >> So I have my Gixon bid. I use Gixon. Mhm. >> Can I now tell you guys now that I've I've shared everything what my bid is? >> Well, I mean, this is going to >> This is going to air after, right? >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, nobody So, nobody will hear this until after and we'll find out whether I got it. >> Then do it. >> See, now I'm feeling like I didn't bid enough. >> My bid is 107509. >> Now, [clears throat] here's here's my thought process. That's the second highest this card has ever sold for. There's the one anomaly [clears throat] >> that sold for like what did I say it was that the one sold for the one cuz I I I feel like I'm using the two. So the highest ever is 11.25. [clears throat] >> Mhm. >> So this would be the second highest sale ever. Since the 11:25, there have been three that have sold and all of them sold for less than my bid. And uh I'm with you, Al. I I'm sitting there going, it's I mean, this is a a rareish card. There's 270 of them or whatever. >> Yeah. >> But it's not the last time it's gonna They show up every couple of months, >> so why go crazy? Even though I also could say but nines if it was a nine and I I I would be bidding more than 1075. So why are you only bidding 1075? >> So >> I wouldn't be continued. >> You know a theoretical concept to to justify your bid because it's an eight. It'll never be a nine. The nines that are in old slabs are never going to be eights. They're always going to be nines. And so, yeah, you can, you know, whine about what something graded 20, 20 years ago, but guess what? Once it's a nine, it's always a nine. And if it's an eight, it has hulking on it. It's never going to be a nine. So, there's reality. And then there's like, oh, but that's not as good of a nine. Well, that's maybe true. That exists in every market, you know, and in the pre-word market, the same thing exists. >> So, let me ask you this. You said once it's an eight, it's always an eight. Once it's a nine, it's always a nine. as as things stand today. >> Yeah. But don't you think that it's possible that at sometime in the future slabbed cards will be able to be uh regraded within the slab with some other sort for I think that at some point they're going to there's going to be a new thing that you take an existing slabbed card that's an eight and this other technology goes shouldn't have been that's really a 780 out of a,000. >> Who's going to take their eight that is lower than an eight and get it revalued to a seven? No one's >> No, no, no, no. I mean I mean like a like an outside website that does a scan of the card. >> Yeah. and they have a secondary grading review sort of like the Mike Baker sticker but an AI based thing where the database takes the serial number and it puts it I I just think that PSA is in 50 years it's not going to be whatever PSA said in their 10point scale where they never use 0.5s like like I think that something's going to change and PSA won't be the be all and end all some other technology will re be re-evaluating cards. That's what I think. >> I think you're right. There will be more technology introduced or already is into the PSA process, but PSA has always honored old grades and they always will. I mean, if something graded a three 20 years ago, you can get it relabbed as a three with with a new not a new serial number, but a new flip uh anytime you want. And and unless there is visible damage to the case itself, they'll put it in a new three holder for you. Same thing with a nine, same thing with a 10. As long as it doesn't exhibit obvious fading from the sun or um the case was tampered with or something, you know, I regardless of what new technology they introduced, I think every grade that PSA has offered, as long as there's no tampering with the case itself, I think they'll always grandfather those old grades in. >> Um, >> but don't you think like I mean, what about Enron? And what about Toys R Us? And what about Blockbuster? And what about RadioShack? These companies that were leaders in their industry and then just fell from grace. I mean, it wasn't that long ago that Beckett was the clear number one and then Beckett was like down to number four and then will Becket come back and rise like the Phoenix. Like, >> it's possible that PSA collapses because of a scandal. What if there's a scandal that comes out >> about PSA? Don't you think that would throw that would throw question into all grades if there was a massive scam? I'm not saying that's going to happen. I'm just saying we don't know, right? >> We don't know. >> Well, I I I would say that PSA hasn't exactly been uh doing themselves any favors recently. I mean, gosh, I mean, between between the whole teapot exposing their grading inconsistency, which I think is one of the most damning videos um and just one of the most awful ones, and not even just for PSA, but but you have but it's true. you have a card that was literally in gem mint condition. Started in a back at 9.5 gem mint and PSA is calling that a six. I mean that either a you should start looking at a whole bunch of sixes because dang there are some nice looking sixes out there. I just put out a video showing one or two of them. Um and so that's one thing. It's also another reason I think why um well I'll come back to this but I would say that well we well look at the Will Chamberlain rookie that what had been a 10 and then it was regraded down to a nine and went from what a million dollar card down to a $200,000 card and that wasn't because of sun fading either. I mean, yes, the buyer asked for that card specifically to be regraded, which that's interesting, and I'm not sure exactly the circumstance that would lead a buyer to ask and make that request, but it does go to show that there's that, you know, look, the proofs in the pudding, their standards, whatever they want to say, they have changed. I think that there's a lot of evidence also that would point this, and I know you mentioned about certain numbers and leading zeros with certain numbers. interesting that um you know even even GameStop that will will offer to purchase your slabs back from you if their cards are greed or a nine or a 10 um they will not make that offer on certain numbers that have leading zeros. Interesting. Also, uh I would say that for me the big cutoff that I look for um for whether a card has been recently graded or not recently graded. My cuto off is basically a leading seven. >> That's my cut off. >> And and I think about that because that's literally that's sort of when when you saw NAT came into PSA. That's sort of when PSA shut down during the pandemic. They were overloaded. And it's also, by the way, you can type in the cert number and if the picture of the card, the scan pops up there. That's about when that happened. Uh, some of the late sixes don't have pictures, don't have images when you actually enter in those cert numbers. And just recently, we heard, who was it? Ryan Hogue, um, in an interview was saying how they've been using not necessarily AI, but at least computer scanning imaging to assist with some of that grading, you know, procedure. And they said they've been doing it for about five years. And that corresponds with when about those seven started coming in. So, so even if um you know they're sneaking their their grading standards by uh the centering tightening it up from a 6040 to a 55 45 in the dead of the night and not telling anybody which is also kind of scummy. Um I think the big shift is is does that number start with a seven or after? Um and and that means even the eight digits um that are of that that that's what I look for. So, right around the time that you're describing when Nat Turner came in and and a lot of his crew >> 2021 early. Yeah. >> A lot of his crew are former software guys. They're they're, you know, uh software company guys. They did make an announcement and I'm looking at the press release on the PSA website right now. It was uh April 21st, 2021 that PSA purchased >> a company called Genement. I've talked about this on my channel a few times. It's a software company that will help improve and scale the process by which PSA handles trading card submissions. Genement technology analyzes each trading card in real time and is able to provide diagnostics, measurements, and detect alterations or other changes made to the card surface in an effort to assist human graders. That's right. When the grading got harder, >> when they introduced this, >> yeah, it's it's not about the new tougher slab that's tougher to crack because it bends instead of shatters. It's not about nine-digits. I would I would look back to when the sevens hit. Now, again, there's an asterisk with that, too, because there were some some cards that were graded a long time ago that do have some searchs that begin with an eight um that that are not, you know, that are not newer slabs. Um but but again those particular cards if they were graded a long time ago they wouldn't have an image in the database unless they had been specifically sent in to get reholdered. And so I you know so that's that's what I would say about that. Uh oh looks like I might have lost Greg here but uh hopefully he'll be uh rejoining us in a second. But um but yeah what do you have you noticed anything about cert numbers just in general all or >> I don't pay too much attention to it. doesn't mean anything to me really. Um, I don't think the market cares about it very much either. >> And um, it's not something I give too much thought to. Can I can I introduce a a wild a wild idea? >> Go ahead. >> Buy the card you want uh with the eye appeal that you want in a grade that that you're happy with. >> It's a wild idea, >> right? And it's incredible. It's incred Yeah. Don't worry too much about when it was graded or, you know, it doesn't mean that every grade before 1999 or 2005 or 2012 is invalid. That doesn't that's not true. There are nines from 2003 that are legit nines, you know. So, we can't say that just because it was graded and it has a leading zero that it's somehow less of a card. It may deserve it may fully deserve that nine. Um, but if you like the look of it, you're happy with the card, you want the card, and it fits your eye appeal, for me, doesn't matter when the hell it was graded. [laughter] >> Yeah. No, that's that's fine. Look, you know, I I I just in my big selloff I did in January, one of the cards I got back was a Barry Bonds 86 tops traded rookie card in a PSA 9 and it had the leading zero. It was an old one, but it was the eye appeal I liked. I wasn't going to sell it anyway and so it didn't really matter to me. It's interesting right now. Um, speaking of speaking of right now, Sunday night, there is a there is an auction that uh that is ending and this auction. Yeah, see, Greg is just saying his internet got uh got dumped here and so and so, yeah, he's he's um he's working to get back in. We're going to work to get him back on here, but looked like a issue on his end of things. But um but yeah, there was a uh there's a 94 collector's choice gold signature Greg Maddox uh that that's on auction right now and and this card ends tonight. So I'm I'm watching it because I'm curious and I'm curious because there's a suspicious number of people looking at this card. They're looking for it. It's not a very high population card. U Welcome back, Greg. >> Um >> sorry guys, I I don't that's never happened to me and I'm >> plugged into the wall and everything. That's fine. Uh, we were just talking about uh some of these older cert numbers and that I I have there's a card that I'm watching. It's a 94 collector's choice gold signature Greg Maddox in a PSA 9. Uh, auctions ending tonight. I'm very curious to see where it's going to end because there's like a lot of watchers for a card like that. This is a card that might be I don't know 10 15 bucks. It's not super expensive, but to find one in a nine is tough to do. Um, and I was looking at it. It is an old cert number. It has a leading zero. And the condition of this card to me looks awful for a nine. It's just terrible. >> It looks I mean it's got it's got dings in the corners, touches of white. It is just I I I think it's a seven if it were graded today. I mean, honestly, I I think a full two grades lower. Uh the copy I have is a is a PSA 8.5 that looks tremendous and I'm really happy with it. But I am curious to see what kind of a bump uh this plastic and this little number change regardless of what the quality of the card is. Just curious to see where it's going to finish tonight. So, we'll have to see. Yeah, unfortunately, I think a lot of us are uh beholdened to the overlords and what they tell us something is instead of what our eyes might tell us otherwise. I mean, and and I and and back to the Bonds card that I was talking about a second ago, I I the card to me looks better than an eight, you know. Uh I'm not in the room with it. I don't get to look at the surface on it. The pictures are pretty good. I looked on the PSA ser uh pictures and they look better. But I I think I think studying what you're studying with that example about cards that don't look like the grade they deserve, do they where do they fall on in the grading, you know, range is is a really interesting uh thing to follow. And and I think that it's going to continue and my my hypothesis is it's going to continue to to change. The number will mean less. And to Al makes a good point, but I do think that our attitude toward the number is going to is going to mean a different amount. Um, sort of like the person who bids over uh what the what the value of a house is uh when they do the, you know, when they appraise it, it's like, well, I don't care that it appraised 30,000 more less than I well, I want it for this amount. I don't care what the appraisal is. Like, I think sometimes we override that. >> And the other thing I I made a note, I just wanted to circle back on the Wilt Chamberlain. I have a hypothesis >> on what's happening with that Willilt Chamberlain card. Yeah. >> Uh, but I'm not ready to go on the record with my hypothesis yet, but there there's something happening behind the scenes. I'll tell you that. >> I I think you're right. There's something there's something happening that we don't know about. And so we can all >> We'll know soon. We'll know soon. >> Yeah. Okay. That'll that'll be uh Yeah, that'll that'll be interesting. That'll definitely be interesting. >> Can we talk about this Greg Maddox collection that you bought? [laughter] >> Uh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just uh you know it's getting uh you know it's getting getting a little hot in here. I'm just uh you know to uh [laughter] just uh Yeah. >> Now let me ask you Al. You you know your brother and you know how he covets these cards and you know how amazing it is that he can have these in his hands right now and how special and rare these cards are. I am of the opinion that he needs to do everything he can to free up as much capital as possible to keep the hardest to get ones because there's a lot of stuff in his collection he'll be able to replace. >> Yeah. >> But some of the things he has in his hand right now will be very very difficult to ever reacquire. So my thing is look through his collection and anything he can replace, I would sell that and keep the things he can't replace. What is what is the advice you're giving him right now? >> For for him, he's very keenly aware of his hobby Northstar. He knows which cards really ignite the passion within him, what he remembers from when he was growing up collecting. And it isn't so much about rarity purely about rarity or how replaceable is it for him. It it's it's more what gets his juices flowing, what gets him excited. And he knows which four or five or six high-end cards he he is going to do everything he can to hold on to. And then yeah, there star rubies or a secondyear PMG that are extremely valuable cards that don't excite him nearly as much as some of the other ones. So, he's going to sell off some pretty rare, pretty high-end cards just because they don't ignite his passion the way the other ones do. And so, I think he's looking at it the right way. Like, he's he's going to keep he's going to do everything he can to keep those holy grail cards that he really remembers from his childhood. And if it means moving on some pretty damn rare cards he'll never he'll never be able to own, that's okay with him because he doesn't need to own them. >> Yeah. >> Am I Am I saying that correctly? >> I I think you summed it up probably as succinctly as as as I could have. It's like, you know, if I if I was able if I were if I if I pulled that what, you know, 40 cards, you know, or whatever from this collection, if by selling three or four gigantic ones, I can keep 90% of them, that's that's pretty amazing to me. >> The beautiful thing about what you're doing, Brian, is you're not trying to be a completist. You're not trying to own every Gregmatics card, and that gives you power. What you're trying to do is acquire the ones that really are meaningful to you. Y >> and so, uh, most hardcore player collectors are trying to get every notable card for a player. And the fact that you're saying, "No, I have boundaries, parameters. I have a bonsai tree that I'm going to trim. I'm going to keep it the size that I want to keep it. I don't need to grow this thing out so it takes up my whole yard." You're you're trimming around the edges where you see fit monetarily makes sense. and also, you know, following that north star deep within yourself and and that's really impressive. >> Well, thank thank you. I um yeah, I I've thought about this and I've thought about, you know, if I can if I can find ways to to get this value elsewhere in my collection, if I can make trims, look, I have a a nice, you know, stack of, you know, Ken Griffy Jr. slabs. I've got a nice stack of of Barry Bonds slabs as well. Um, but but honestly, most of my biggest cards are are other Maddox cards as well. And so, but I think I think, you know, I I could potentially move the needle with some of those Griffies or some of those Bonses. And and I and I think that's definitely worth considering. And and for me, a a big part of that decision is sort of, yeah, how how reacquirable are some of these cards? Um, you know, I also, you know, collect Diamond King autographs. And I I I look, I have a 93 Kirby Pucket that is, um, just gorgeous. And I could probably, you know, make quite a bit from the sale of that card, but I don't think I would ever be able to reacquire one that looks anywhere near as nice as it does for, you know, anywhere near what I have into it. That I'm not comfortable putting that on the chopping block. And so >> that's a truly essential card for you. So >> it is. is second year PMG Maddox really I mean >> I don't know you make that decision yeah the first year PMG I think means a lot more and so and so again if I can if I can do what I can that that would be the biggest card that that was in the pickup and if I can find a way to swing it so I can keep both like 90% of the cards that I got and the very biggest one >> and part of it is probably going to be dependent on what they grade for right like if some of the rarer ones pull a 10, you're almost going to have to grade it because it's worth you don't need a 10. Oh, I I mean, I'm not speaking for you, but based on your videos, you probably don't feel like you need a 10. So, I've got to extract as much value from this one as I can to go towards these other things. And I'll look for an eight down the road. >> Yep. >> I've been learning. I've been taking notes from you guys. Bravo. Look, I I just recorded, look, I recorded three pregrading analysis videos. Haven't dropped any of them yet. Uh they're all about 45 minutes. And so this is lengthy multi-our session going through all of these. All right. And so and so I I got them like under a microscope, under the loop. I mean, I'm looking under the lights to figure out and I have a pretty good idea of what I have here as far as Now, obviously, I don't know what as we as we know, uh, there's no way to tell what any grading company might call any given card on any given day, but I have a really a pretty decent, you know, ballpark anyway of what it's going to come back. And so, I'm just trying to decide how to navigate this right now because, you know, I'm I'm probably going to have to drop about $1,000 just on grading fees alone. And that doesn't include upcharges if I'm going to go PSA for the very biggest ones. I mean, some of these cards are are going to be if I if I send them to PSA, I'm I'm going to be charged like $600 just for the grading fee alone for a card like that. So, it's it's um you know, it it makes a big difference. So, I'm I'm thinking about for a select number of them, I'm considering using Beckett. And the reason why I'm considering Becket, well, I'm considering Becket for a few reasons. Um, some of these cards are going to be for my personal collection. I'm not going to be, you know, necessarily selling them. The duplicates, okay, that's a different story. But again, like you have a Diamond King, you know, Jersey Kings autograph on card numbered out of 50. I mean, that's just beautiful. It's a thicker card. Thicker cards go well with Beckett usually. Um, also cards that have autographs in general, uh, a card like this, also a PC card. Um, you know, if you if you try to grade something like this or even the the 96 uh 96 Alif signature autograph, any auto before 98 pack has to be dualgraded with PSA. And with their recently updated prices that are now higher than they ever have been in recent memory anyway, um was that the fourth price increase in the last year that they've had, the cost to dual grade a single card is now you're looking at 50 bucks um just for, you know, grading one card. Whereas with Beckett, it's just a $5 add-on. You know, you can grade a card for what is it 15.99. If you want subgrades, which I do, it's like 18 or 19.99. Add five bucks on for the autograph. Great. 25 bucks out the door. Let's go ahead and do that. Um, Noah, >> you see the era actually fits with Becket, too. You know, that's >> I was I was about to get there. Becket was the most nostalgic, you know, name at that time in the late 90s, very early 2000s. They were the name. Yeah. PSA was, you know, was in there before and so was SGC. They were around, too. But, um, but at that time, Beckett was they were they were king. They were top of the hobby. >> They're also going to be much more lenient on a 98 DRA signature century mark. They just are. I was getting there, too. You know, I look, I I have a couple cards I think are going to come back. If I sent them to PSA, they'd give me a five or a six. I think Becket has a chance to give me a seven or a 7.5 on some of these cards. I just think that PSA has been so harsh, so strict as of late. And honestly, some of these cards are so huge where the grade almost doesn't even matter. Um, and and it's it's about, you know, is the card going to get holdered? Is it authentic? Has it not been trimmed? Has it not been color added? Has it not been altered in some way, shape, or form? Uh, that's the biggie. That's the big hurdle to get over. And again, after Teapot's, you know, thing where this card has been deemed oversized and undersized and evidence of shaving and also Gem Mint by a different company, it's like, okay, the big hurdle is just getting the dang thing into a slab. It doesn't really matter to me as long as it's one of the legitimate companies. Um, you know, and and then the other thing that makes me nervous, too, is that like the, you know, the the wait time of getting these cards back, Greg, I was just looking at one of your videos the other day where you sent in a a grading order on December 27th. >> Guess who also sent in a grading order on December 27th. This guy, I dropped off one at through GameStop, so it was through PSA. It wasn't through SGC. Um, but I will tell you that as of as of today, this card still has this 17 cards. It was 17 cards through PSA, GameStop, and and I've done it like four or five times. You I'm no, you know, beginner to this, you know, but as of today, these this grading order still has yet to enter into the research and ID phase in the pizza tracker. Hasn't even started. So, that is absurd. And so I'm looking at some of these too and realizing that, okay, if I really do send these in to whichever company, you know, I'm going to be lucky to get these back by Christmas. My goodness. Um, and so what makes me nervous is that like, you know, Becket with their lowest tier anyway, they say, you know, 75 plus business days. And it's the plus in there that really gets me because they say 75 plus, what's that? 120 business days in reality. 150. I mean, what are we looking at really? And so, I'm considering, you know, voluntarily paying a slightly higher uh, you know, service tier level uh, just just to have him back in whatever 45 business days or 30 business something. >> I mean, if if you think about the uh amount of time you'd be continuing to carry that money, you know, it's like carrying a second mortgage. If you're going to carry that that money and have that money out there for six months >> or for an extra, you know, 50 bucks a card, you know, on the top eight cards or something, you can carry it for a month and a half instead of six months. I think it's worth every penny because you need to get you need to get your money back. You need to be able to start liquidating to get whole again. You can't just go six months whenever you guys get around to it. I think I think paying up for a faster turnaround time on the top five or six cards is a smart move, especially if they're going to PSA, especially if they're cards that you're thinking you're going to sell. >> Yeah. And so that's that's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking the some of the very biggest cards are actually going to Beckett. And I think I will probably for about four of them. And so I'm probably gonna send I've got two gosh uh I've got two PMGs and I've got two star rubies. And I think these four I will send with Beckett and I will send at a uh at a higher uh service tier and so to get them back faster and then I've got about four others that I will send to Becket either because they're thicker cards. they're they would require dual grading, which I don't want to do. Or in the case of a card like Select Numbers, PSA no longer grades this card. It was never officially released. It was a pinnacle bankruptcy card. Uh Becket will. In fact, this is a duplicate. So my other card actually sits right now in a Becket 9. So So that's my kind of my plan is I I'll probably make two separate Becket submissions. One at a higher faster grading tier that is more expensive. that might be 50 or $75 per card, which again is still way less than the 300 or 600 that PSA would upcharge me. And um and as for the rest of them, I would probably submit just bulk level PSA. Um you know, I've got the rest of the whatever this is, 30 cards or 35, whatever this is. um that I probably would send in at probably the lowest value, the lowest tier, just because I've got so many of them. And um and I would like to get them in PSA holders for as cheap as I can, understanding that I probably won't see them till Christmas. >> Yeah. >> Let let me ask I know we're getting low on time, but I I got to ask you one follow-up question >> in that deal. Is there any card that when all the cards were laid out in that hotel room and you didn't end up buying it and you ended up leaving without acquiring it that you keep thinking about going, "Man, I really I really should I wish I had gotten that one." Is Is there any card that you left with that that now you wish you had included in the deal? >> Well, not not really. Um and and here's the thing. It was sort of like, you know, cuz cuz I, you know, Bill and I were in there together and I and I and Bill Bill sort of set this whole thing up and brought me in as a almost like as a as a consultant sort of specialist. um he he sort of shared my YouTube channel with with the seller so he would be able to see sort of how I interact with the hobby and and how I navigate 90s cards and sort of to sort of vet me a little bit because after all you are meeting after all you're meeting a stranger in a random hotel room in Ohio with with a lot of cards or a lot of cash not generally recommended um right you know to to do that but but you know we we do what we must and Um, and so we kind of, now I didn't want to step on Bill's toes, and if there were cards that Bill wanted, I I told him out of the gate, look, you have first dibs. You have this is this is your show. Um, any card that you want, you know, please step in here. I do not want to step on your toes. You know, whatever whatever it is you want, you need for your collection, please know that you have priority. You have first crack at whatever you want. Um, it just so happens for those PMGs and star rubies, he already has them all. So, you know, he he just doesn't need them. And so now there were a couple cards that he was interested in for like condition upgrades, right? So, one of his cards might have had a bum corner and now he has an opportunity to replace it with a better presenting copy. Um, and I say better presenting because he's not a grader. You know, it doesn't number grade number doesn't really matter to him. Um, in fact, I might be going over at some point. The plan had been for that very day for me to actually go over to his house and help him look at a couple cards and and perhaps pick out a couple to send in to get graded. Um, as it turned out, we had something more urgent that we had to go see this, namely this collection in Ohio. And uh, so that didn't happen. So, it's going to have to be rescheduled for some other time. But, um, but yeah, that's that's kind of that's kind of the idea I think is just um Yeah. Yeah, that's um >> Well, I'm excited to see how this whole thing plays out. And you sound like you're going to be more patient than me. I'm going to be going, "What the heck's where are we at on the pizza tracker?" Because uh six months waiting for 30 cards, I'm going to be on pins and needles. So, >> well, Beck Becket doesn't really have a pizza tracker. They have a void. They have a black hole that your cards fall into. And then all of a sudden, you know, four and a half months later, you get an email, hey, we shipped this out yesterday, by the way. Here's a tracking number. It's like, oh, what was this again? Right. >> I think these one of these companies should partner with with Domino's. And so when you when you place a grading order, then you actually get a pizza the day you place the order. [laughter] >> At least you get something the day you place the order. >> Yeah. I I mean Well Well, again, with the pizza tracker, I like how it's like Jonathan is preparing your pizza. I would like it like Yes, Finnegan is examining your card. Like that would be great to have. [laughter] When you buy a sweatshirt like this hoodie I have on, you reach in the pocket and there's a little sticker and it says inspected by number 73 and you don't even have that on your thousand sports card. There's no record for us on who graded it. I mean, it's crazy. >> No, no accountability. Well, you know, if something turns out to be wrong about that, they you know, you know, liability. Do they want to know who's responsible? I don't know. >> Yeah. >> It's a good question, though. Well, you guys inviting me on made my weekend and I had a blast. And that was too fast of an hour. I'll tell you that much. But, uh, >> you guys know I love your your channels and I love this episode and I'm honored to be a guest on it. So, thank you for including me and inviting me on it. It is. Again, the feeling is mutual. We we love we love your content and how you engage with the hobby, bringing people together, showing people's pickups on your own videos and you're on your own channel and um as Iconic Al said, you're the glue. You're the glue that holds the hobby together. I think that's an apt uh metaphor and >> Good Life Nation. >> Yeah. Exactly right. Exactly right. And and so we're only too happy to have you on. Really glad that this worked out well um for you to be able to join us. Um, we're excited to have you as our first ever guest on our brother's trio episode. >> Excited. Excited to be here. So, yeah. >> Yeah, we'll be watching that Bonser Fractor as it ends. When is it? Two, one, one day from today. >> No, it's tonight. >> Tonight. Okay. Okay. >> A couple hours. So, we'll we'll have to see. >> The question now is whether I up my bid. >> Well, yeah. Don't don't do anything too uncomfortable, but I'd say follow follow Al's advice, you know, the numbers. Yeah. >> Where are you comfortable? Where would you be really upset at missing it out? >> Yeah. You're right in the middle of, you know, you know where the comp ranges are. It's it's more about how do you feel about it and how would you feel about it once it ended? >> Yeah. >> And knowing that again, it's a it's a great card, but it's not the last time this card will be for sale this year. >> Yeah. >> It will come up again. I I guarantee it. Two or three more times it will pop up again. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Not a gigantic rush to get it. >> It's true. It's good advice. I asked the two perfect people, like the two perfect people to get feedback from, so I think I might jack my my bid up a little bit, but um I'll keep you guys posted. I'll text you tonight. >> All right. >> Reserve me a copy of your book so I can uh get a signed copy at the National, please. >> I would I will absolutely bring you one at the National for sure. >> Excellent. >> Yeah. >> Fantastic. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> All right. Well, thank you for for joining us and and all of you out there, if you have not yet gone to Amazon and ordered this book, all right, please please go ahead and do that. Um, it's going to be amazing. I know it's going to be amazing. You're going to enjoy it. It's going to be a great read. Um, I've already heard some of these stories before. I know they're great stories. I want to I want to experience it firsthand for myself. Can't wait to do that. So, thank you everybody for joining us and we will see you in the next video. Take care. Yep.

In this video, real-life brothers Brian (HighPopProfessor) and Iconic AL (Iconic Baseball) chat with Graig (Midlife Cards) about all kinds of hobby topics. Enjoy!