The Laziest Way To Make Your Body Kill Visceral Fat

And we are live. I am so excited to be live again. I've missed you all so much. And today I have a fantastic guest, Robert Sykes, also known as Keto Savage. He is the founder of Keto Savage as well as the Keto Brick. And he has over a decade of experience with bodybuilding naturally by the way, and how to use a ketogenic diet to reach your goals. So today, we're going to learn a lot about fat loss and muscle building. So later in this live stream guys, we will do Q&A. So if you have questions anytime throughout this live stream, just drop it in the live chat and I will get to it shortly. But first, Robert, welcome. Introduce yourself. >> Hey, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. So yeah, I'm Robert Sykes. As you said, I've been naturally bodybuilding uh my whole life, but I guess since I was a junior in high school. So I was scrawny, super skinny starting out. Wanted to build muscle, probably to impress the ladies or something like that. and uh just built a lot of size but did it all with the wrong high carbohydrate diet. Developed a bunch of eating disorders that became a slippery slope that plagued me for years. Fell into keto by accident and have not looked back since. I've been doing keto carnivore for the past 11 years strict strictly now. >> Wow. Fantastic. So, Robert, thank you for your time. My first question is really to help most of my YouTube family here. Um, a lot of my audience members who watch my channel at least, they are deep in healing. So, they're trying to use a carnivore diet to heal autoimmune issues, skin issues, joint pain, chronic pain in general, and they can't necessarily be extremely active just yet. So, what is a tactic or a habit that they can incorporate to effectively lose weight and burn fat? >> Anything is better than nothing. I mean, I've worked with people that literally had hardly any mobility and couldn't hardly get off of the bed every morning upon waking. So, anything is better than nothing. Progressive overload principles apply at whatever scale that is for the individual. So, you know, just simply getting some steps in, walking, and then progressing up from there. I mean, people can start with resistance bands when it comes to, you know, an early way to get into weight training. Like, the bare basics is better than nothing. And then, like I said, progressive overload principles is the main theme. So as you develop that hormetic response, your body acclimates to that stimulus and grows and adapts, then you can just keep adding more intensity, frequency, and duration as needed. >> So if you don't mind explaining that progressive overload and how someone can get started with just simply walking more, what do you advise like the plan? >> Yeah. So I mean like from a progressive overload standpoint, it's basically progressively overloading the muscles, tendons, ligaments, joints in some form or fashion. So, in a weight training setting, that would be like adding more weight or adding more repetitions. In a walking scenario, that could be simply, you know, staying upright, going for more steps a day, another lap around the neighborhood or whatever that may be at greater intensity, so a greater pace, faster pace. Uh, but basically, just more steps, so a longer distance would be a great form of progressive overload for something like walking. >> What are your thoughts on treadmill walking at an incline? Is that effective? Yeah, I mean it's way more I mean incline is going to be another form of progressive overload beyond just flat plane. So, you know, an incline is going to be much better, much more effective at increasing caloric expenditure and overall intensity and it's going to also stimulate more deep muscle tissue fiber activation as well. So, you know, you're going to have to have gravity going against you if you're at an incline. So, that's going to stimulate more muscles. So, you're going to have more growth from that as opposed to just walking on a flat plane. >> Awesome. And what knowledge or piece of advice can you give to how to burn visceral fat? Not just body fat, but visceral fat. >> So, the types of foods obviously are very key. Like, we're all fans of, you know, eating steak and butter here. So, a quality ketogenic diet is going to be key in that regard. Um, ketogenic carnivore diet. And then, honestly, reducing the amount of overall atapost tissue and body fat will have a pretty profound impact on reducing visceral fat as well. Walking is great for that. Being in a nonstressed state I think is super o like underrated. People don't put enough time and do attention towards that. When you are in a chronically stressed sympathetic state your ability to dispose of unnecessary visceral fat is going to be hindered. So, you know, honestly, just the basics, going into a rest and relaxed state upon feeding, eating the right foods, getting plenty of sleep and recovery and moving your body and asking, you know, intensity of it in some form of fashion is all going to bode well for reducing visceral fat specifically. >> Excellent. Um, and you have so much experience with natural bodybuilding. What can you say to the people who just do not believe that you do not need carbs to build muscle? Um, so it's it's a it's a constant delay. It's a big controversy. I mean, I've been I was bodybuilding without a ketogenic diet for the first several years. So, you know, I had competed with a carbohydrate diet, but I've again been strict keto for the past 11 years or so. And I've built muscle, you know, every year thereafter since adopting that way of eating. I've gotten better every time I've stepped on stage. I'm able to retain more muscle when I diet down for show. and I beat many of those competitors that are eating carbohydrates. So, I think the proof's in the pudding in that regard. Um, I mean, you could build muscle with any type of diet. There's basically just four boxes you got to check. You got to eat enough protein, eat enough overall fuel intake, enough fuel coming in, enough calories, uh, have enough training intensity stimulus to require growth and put that in a demand, and then have ample recovery. If you check those four boxes, you can build muscle with any diets and ketogenic carnivore diet especially because you're obviously going to eat enough protein. >> Wow. And guys, this is the physique we're looking at, by the way, that Robert has achieved, just so you guys know. Um, and I'm going to now bring on Melanie. So, Melanie is a huge fan of you, Robert, and she is also part of the SPG team. Melanie, I'll let you ask a question, and we're going to open the floor to live chat questions. >> Sounds great. Thank you. Hi, Robert. Thanks for being here. And yes, I am a big fan. [laughter] Um he's like my role model now, you know. Um no, I think one of the questions that I always hear or or what I hear from women is they're fearful about lifting heavy. Explain to women why it's okay to lift heavy weights and not to be fearful of that and they're not going to bulk up and look like a man. [laughter] >> Yeah, I wish it were that easy to put on that much muscle. It would make my job much easier, but that's not the way it works. like women unfortunately um you know that the magazines like women see that like just a freak show and they assume that that's what they're going to look like. But in order to look like that, you have to want to look like that. You're taking on a ton of exogenous hormones to put on that much muscle as a female. It's not going to happen from simply weight training and living as a bodybuilder. Um so that should be put at ease there. as far as the need or demand or you know concern around lifting heavy that's all going to be totally subjective to the individual and it's going to be a perspective basis. So like what is heavy for me would be totally different for somebody else. I mean you got to start somewhere and you have to have that progressive overload in place. Like my mother just recently started doing a keto diet about three or four years ago now. Um and she didn't weight train. So she started with body weightight movement. She started with resistance bands. she progressed to, you know, 5 lb dumbbells, 10 pound dumbbells. That may be heavy for her in this chapter in her life. It's not heavy by my standards, but it's heavy by her standards. So, it's all relative. Um, and then she continues to get better as time goes on. And building muscle, I mean, they they call it the longevity hormone for a reason. The more muscle you have, the better you'll age, the more capable you'll be. You'll be more resilient if you were to fall or something of that nature. building muscle and putting the body through that stress, that stress, that strenuous, that load, that's going to improve ligament strength, tendon functionality, joint health, bone mineral density. I mean, when you look at a DEXA scan to see people, you know, what their bone mineral density is for osteoporosis, it's pretty evident who weight trains and who doesn't. And the more dense density you have in that skeletal structure, the better you'll age as well. So, weight training would benefit everybody. It's just a matter of how much of a focus you want to make it. >> Good. Yeah. I would just say too, Robert, are you Isn't it not true that like you said, it's the ma demand that you need? So like what might be heavy for me would would be really heavy for somebody else, but it's the over time and the consistency of the days amounts that you work out to increase that load so that you build the muscle and build the strength that you need to support the bones. Correct. >> Yeah, exactly. I mean, progressive overload in a nutshell is basically like if you if I were to go to the gym and only do three sets of 10 with 20 lb dumbbells, well, across the board, that's all I ever did. My body would grow to acclimate and be able to adapt to that stimulus, and it would have no demand or reason to grow beyond that. So progressive overload would be to add more weight, add an additional rep, increase time under tension or some type of intensity technique to basically create enough stimulus for there to be a demand for my body to need to grow beyond that point. And that is what you want to elicit because the more muscle you have, the better you'll age, the more capable you'll be. And from a sheer nutritional standpoint, muscle is very metabolically demanding. So the more muscle you have, the more of a glucose disposal agent your body becomes, the more um the more calories or fuel you can take in without contributing to additional body fat gain because that muscle is so metabolically demanding. So it allows you to eat more food and function at a higher capacity. >> Amazing. Great questions, Melanie. So let me put up this question from TTT. How do you do balance? How do you balance progressive overload in weightlifting without causing fatigue? >> Yeah, so CNS fatigue, central nervous system, that's basically what they call um like you can have like DOMS, delayed onset muscle soreness and if you start training and it's all a new stimulus to you, you're going to tax that CNS pretty intensely and you will likely be sore, not able to walk for a little bit. The best way to get beyond that is to honestly just train through it so your body can kind of get through that phase and then acclimate to that stimulus, that load, and then going forward, you won't really get that experience of soreness all that much anymore. And the beautiful thing about a keto or carnivore diet is that the deeper fat adapted you become um the basically the more capable you are at clearing lactate because the MCT transporters the monocaroxolic transporters that shuttle pyuvate and lactate through the cells are also upregulated to move ketone bodies to the cells. So you're able to clear lactate more efficiently. That lactate is what brings on that burning sensation. So, as you get more deeply fat adapted, you're able to train with more frequency without having that burn CNS fatigue that often accompanies weight training. So, from a frequency and recovery standpoint, a ketogenic diet is is great. >> I have a follow-up. So, what do you recommend for someone who wants to find their ideal fat to protein ratio? >> So, what I like to do, and this is very counter to what mainstream bodybuilders do, for sure. Most people, whether they're keto, carnivore, or just in traditional conventional eating methods, they just have a a set protein goal, and they just set it and forget it. But if you don't have the carbs, you've only got fat and protein levers to manipulate, so to speak. So, what I'll typically do is I'll start my clients at a high fat ratio, relatively low protein, and then as we progress, I'll scale that protein up while simultaneously dropping that dietary fat to find that individual's unique protein threshold. And then from there, depending on what the goals are, I'll increase or decrease total intake. But everyone's going to have their own unique protein threshold. And when they hit that threshold, they'll typically experience, you know, increasing blood sugar, decreasing blood ketones, more joint pain and inflammation, less mental acuity, more brain fog, a little more GI distress and bloating. But it's totally unique to them. And it's honestly context dependent whether they're in a building phase focused on adding more muscle or if they're focused on fat loss. Um, it kind of changes accordingly. >> Amazing. Jason says, "Robert, we need a new flavor of the carnivore brick." [laughter] >> I'm working on one. I'm working on one. I'm working on a seasonal one. So, >> wait a minute. You've got like six or seven, right? Or eight. >> Got a bunch of flavors. Yeah, we uh we have flavors. >> Nice. [laughter] >> We've linked them down below in the description box, by the way, if you guys >> Don't tell anybody, Robert, that I have tried them. Don't tell anybody. Honestly, [laughter] like we've we've got some that are carnivore, we've got some that are organ blends, we've got some that are plant proteins, animal proteins. Like I don't ever tell people you have to eat ketos. Like it's there to be a convenience factor that makes the diet more sustainable. And the more sustainable it is, the better anybody's going to adhere to it and the better results you'll find. So, >> I will tell you this though, the keto brick that has the organs in it, don't eat it at night because I mean it gives you energy. You're like you're like awake. >> That's one of my favorite ones. I love that. >> Eat it during the day, baby. Don't Don't eat it at night. [laughter] >> Awesome. Next up, we have uh this question. What are your thoughts on raw carnivore? >> Raw carnivore. So, I actually just had a really interesting podcast the other day with a guy that he slaughters a lamb and then he eats this raw lamb throughout the day as needed, which is interesting. But he he's healthy. Uh and he came from a vegan background. He's reverse a lot of his ailments. So, I mean, I can't knock the fact that it's working for him. Personally, I like my meat cooked, not cooked too much. I like a medium rare steak. Um, but from a nutritional assimilation standpoint, I think certain things absorb much better when cooked. Certain things absorb much better when raw. Um, I don't think you need to likely go the route of raw carnivore, unless you are one that is super hyper sensitive to, you know, histamines and things of that nature. >> Totally agree. Yeah, I tried raw carnivore maybe a couple days now throughout my journey and it's always in hotter weather. I feel like it's more enjoyable [snorts] to have raw meat. And I noticed that I don't need to eat as much meat to feel truly full >> when I eat the meat raw. >> And I also noticed that sashimi is just amazing to take advantage of when you do raw carnivore as well. >> Yeah, >> I love sashimi. And when I did my last prep, what I found myself just craving was uh lamb that wasn't raw, but it was it was pretty close to it. Like I would basically make a big lamb burger and then I would sear both sides of it. So the middle was totally raw, but I found myself just drawn to that. So maybe my body was telling me something, >> right? Love it. Um let me know in the chat, guys, if you've ever tried raw carnivore, if you know anything about it. Share your knowledge in the chat, please. Next up, we've got Loyal Miller. Been on carnivore nearly two years now, but I'm not in ketosis. What am I doing wrong? >> So, this is an interesting one. Um, keto is technically a metabolic state. Uh, when you're eating in a ketogenic diet or, you know, producing ketones, you're in a state of ketosis. Carnivore is a subset of keto. Um, which obviously not consuming carbohydrates, predominantly consuming fats and proteins. No matter what what area you are on the spectrum, protein is never a great substrate for energy. You're either getting your energy from fats or carbohydrates. Ideally, we're all getting it from fats. So, protein, if too if taken too high, could hinder fat metabolism. Uh you could have a glucose response to that, which is going to obviously downregulate ketone production. So, some people that are doing carnivore are taking in excessive amounts of protein relative to dietary fat, and that's obviously going to hinder one's ability to get into ketosis. So, I would just be mindful of that. >> Amazing. Let's do this one about loose stools. The diarrhea was insane when I tried only meat. How do you guys get through it? >> Uh, so I haven't really noticed crazy GI distress with doing only meat. Um, I think the timing matters, the the ratio of the fat to protein. Like if you're doing only meat that's super fatty, like if you're eating >> I don't know what a good example would be. Like if you're eating nothing but um cod liver, like that would probably result in diarrhea. Um or I've noticed if you're way too high on the protein and consuming like nothing but chicken breast, like the extremes is when people get in trouble. Like if you're kind of in that one ratio of fat grams to protein grams, then just going from either end or the other to find your unique sweet spot, that's usually a pretty safe bet from a digestive standpoint. Melanie, any tips? >> Uh, no. I just, you know, I I never really had that, so I can't really speak to it. So, um, yeah, I'm I'm kind of blessed. >> That's great. So, for me, I had loose stools like my first few months of going carnivore. I always like to share like what was your diet before going carnivore or all meat because your body might be adjusting to eating so much protein and fat or lots of fat. I was vegan for 6 years before going carnivore, so it made sense that I had a lot of loose stools there. But I noticed that avoiding melted fat and rendered fat was really helpful and instead eating solid and cold butter or raw sew it, raw beef fat trimmings was easier for my body to digest. So you guys can check that out if you have loose stools. Um, okay, let's do this one from Lively Lionus. I lost a lot of muscle two years ago after a car accident and currently have runner's knee in both knees. What should I do to lose 60 lbs without further injuries? >> So, when it comes to avoiding further injuries, I would obviously just do movements that are not going to put unnecessary load or strain on your knees. So like you know a compound you know free weight squat may not be the best option but maybe you know a supported leg press or hack squat would. So picking exercise that you can do safely and comfortably with that injury would be key. Then as far as the nutritional manipulations you would want to make you know if you're when it comes to nutrition I typically have people just eat intuitively until they hit a plateau. And then once that plateau has been hit, then we can start really peeling back the curtains, start tracking your intake, adjust adjusting the macro distribution as needed. Um, so if you are plateauing with your current weight, uh, even with the addition of the exercise, then I would just start tracking things so that you're not just guessing because what can be measured can be managed and then we can kind of get that dialed in accordingly going forward. And I I'd like to recommend too um just for this person um water is a great not um you know um workout and you can lose a lot of weight if you have access tool. I know it's winter in a lot of places but any type of water exercise um takes the u pain off those joints and it's very very effective. >> Yeah, swimming's great. I mean I'm terrible swimmer so I don't ever default to going there but yeah that would be a great option for sure. >> Nice. Richard says, "With the carnivore diet, do I still have to eat more grams of protein to body weight ratio if I want to build muscle?" >> So, this as far as like the how many grams per pound of lean mass or recommendation, people oftentimes say one gram of protein per pound of lean mass or per pound of total body weight if you are of a healthy body weight. That's all great and it's a good general rule of thumb recommendation. But again, I'm adjusting macros up and down accordingly based off how my body's responding. What I have found is when you are fat adapted, since ketones are so anti catabolic, if you're in a fat loss phase, you can go much lower on the protein than conventionally prescribed without risking the loss of any lean tissue. And in the context of a building phase, you don't really need to overdo the protein, especially if that's going to put you at risk of minimizing your level of fat adaptation and energy. Like if you've only got so much fuel to work with, so many calories coming in that you can partition, you want to make sure you've got enough energy coming in from that fat that you're fueling your lifting sessions and actually training with intensity. So you probably don't need to overdo the protein. I mean, personally, just as a reference, I am 57, 5'8. I weigh about 185 pounds in the building phase. And if I'm only consuming 150 grams of protein a day as I am today for instance, I'm not worried about not building muscle at all. >> Perfect. This next one is, how often should you include a D load week? Is the PPL the best split overall for hypertrophy? >> So D load week is basically a scheduled reduction in intensity from the normal training program. When it comes to D loads, if I'm implementing progressive overload and pushing the needle um pretty intensely, I'll typically have a D load every 8 to n weeks, um I'll start to notice some signs of, you know, tendonitis and just a little bit more joint pain. I just feel a bit more run down and like I'm not recovering adequately. That's usually a pretty good sign of a D lo. When I do a D load, I'll pretty much keep the same exercises and just reduce the weight by half roughly, focusing more so on blood flow than lifting heavy and taxing the CNS. And you can do that proactively every 6 to 8 weeks roughly. Um, as far as the split goes, PPL is push pull legs. Um, that's a great one. A lot of people that are just starting and only have three days a week to train all oftentimes recommend push pull legs or even like a full body Monday, Wednesday, Friday would work. When it comes to training programs, there's a million different ways to do it. The main thing is just to do it and sustain it. And you want to give yourself ample time to recover between training the same body part. Um, but like a full body plan. I mean, you're pretty much training the exact same body part every single day you're training, but it may be with a different exercise. So, you're not doing the exact same thing every single day. But yeah, push pull legs is great. Um, upper lower is great. Full body is great. They're all great as long as you adhere to it. >> Yeah. >> Melanie, what do you do as a gym aholic? >> Well, um, now that I've kind of got Robert in my pocket, [laughter] >> um, I've I've kind of bumped it up a bit. I'm I'm trying to eat more, you know, I'm trying to really get my calories up there. I'm in a I would consider myself in a building phase right now. Um, and then I'm going to be talking to Robert about how to decrease that so that I can get into a lean phase and more um, muscle tone phase. But I typically work out four days a week, two body parts uh, a day or I do like what Robert says, I'll do three days a week whole body workouts and then give my body pretty much a lot of time to rest because rest is important. We don't want to have somebody working out five, six days a week unless maybe you're walking in between or something like that, but you don't want to stress the body that much. So that's that's usually my regimen is about four days a week. >> Awesome. Very cool. All right. So Chuck says, "I'm looking for an answer about me being strict carnivore, one meal a day with long 7-day fasts for 2 years. Going back on BBBE, which is beef, butter, bacon, eggs, should [snorts] I just jump right back in as if I never stopped? What are your thoughts, Robert?" So, the extended fasting, I'm not opposed to extended fasting. Uh, I mean, I'm doing intermittent fasting kind of daily by default from being fat adapted. It just kind of comes naturally throughout the day. I don't typically ever recommend extended fasting in the context of focusing on fat loss because if I'm dropping my intake, that's a stressor on the body in and of itself. And doing that in tandem with an extended fast might be doing, you know, there's probably going to be a point of diminishing returns. It's too much of a stressor. However, I'll do extended fasting in the context of a building phase where I'm at a significant surplus more often than not and I'm wanting to give my digestive system a break from that intake, that higher intake. Um, currently I'm doing an OMAD approach. But the thing is when you're having a longer break or feeding or fasting window rather, when it's time to eat, you have to make sure you're consuming adequate nutrition. And I see so many people under consuming food in general and then they're going to have a down reggulation of their metabolism, their hormone function, their thyroid health, and obviously muscle building potential. So, if you're doing a 7-day fast, that's probably not going to be optimal for building more muscle. If you're wanting to have a longer fasting window, I'd probably do like an OMAD approach or maybe even every other day. So, alternate day fasting, just making sure that you're eating quite a bit during that feeding window. >> Yeah. So Chuck adds on here. He says, "I've [snorts] been eating a standard American diet for 2 years since carnivore." So still the same thoughts. >> Yeah. I mean, I would just jump right back in as far as that's concerned. I mean, the the if you fall off the wagon or you fall off the horse, you just get right back on the horse. Like there's not really any special way to get acclimated. You just got to get back on it and stay on it. >> Agreed. Perfect. Bailey says, "How do you track on carnivore, fat ratio, and protein, etc." >> So, I use uh Chronometer as my preferred macro tracking app. There's a million different ones out there. They all do about the same thing. So, as long as you have one that you prefer to use, that's fine. U but I'll basically just track the intake of my food if I am, you know, targeting a specific goal and wanting to get super granular with. There'll be times where I just eat intuitively and I've tracked my food for so long, I know kind of, you know, how many grams of fat and protein are in a 8020 ground beef versus 9010 versus venison versus a ribeye. Uh, but like if I've got a specific goal and I'm wanting to break break through a plateau, then I will track everything to the tea with chronometer. >> Amazing. Melanie, how do you track if you track? >> That's a bad word for [laughter] me. Robert knows I do not like to track, but um I because it's like it's like tracking is like u you know chronometer for dummies. They need one of those classes. So um I don't track. I generally just try to know what uh my 2500 calories looks like, you know, and and if I'm having issues, I will go put it in the chronometer and look at it and see what's happening. I usually tend to be on more on the fat side than I do the protein side, which I guess, you know, for us is is really good. I guess until I start to lean out and then I might have to reduce some of that. But um I don't really like tracking. That's why I came to carnivore to begin with. But there is a need per se um sometimes when you're doing um intense um training or like Robert's um clients, you know, they're training to be on the stage and so they they really need that measurement. So, but for most of us, I don't think we really need to track all the time, but it is kind of a good thing to do to see where you're at. >> Yeah. And I think to dovtail off of that, I mean, carnivore and keto are great for eating intuitively because your blood sugar is more stable. You're going to have more accurate hunger signaling cues. Your leptin and grill are going to be more, you know, accurate as well. So, if you're going to eat intuitively, doing so with a keto or carnivore diet is great. Um, and I feel like, you know, people can come from a standard American diet, not track a morsel, eat keto or carnivore from quality foods, and see tremendous progress, but then at some point they're probably going to hit a plateau. And then that's when you want to just pull out that next level of, you know, accuracy and start measuring things and manipulating it from that degree. Uh but yeah, I I am never one to say that you have to track. Just a matter of how far do you want to take it? >> We lost your sound. We lost your sound, Bella. >> Thanks, Melanie. I was accidentally muted. Um I was going to add to that that tracking can be so great to see if you are even eating enough. So, I see a lot of young women, they say, "Oh my gosh, I feel like I'm eating so much and I feel so full and so satiated." And after they track, they're really only eating like 1300 calories and it's like, "That's why you're losing hair. That's why you're low energy." So, I feel like tracking can be very eye opening as well. >> Yeah. I mean, obviously, we have people that eat way too much and we have people on the other end of the spectrum that don't eat near enough. And there's been a lot of I'm sure y'all have seen it as well, but there's been a lot of um prominent people that have jumped from the carnivore space and said that carnivore long term is resulting in a down regulation of thyroid health and it's not healthy for women long term. In all the years I've been doing this and in all the clients I've worked with, if anybody, male or female, is eating ample nutrition, ample nutrition, the likelihood of them having any issues is drastically reduced. The problem is so many people chronically undereat and that's where all these issues stem from. >> Thank you for saying that. [laughter] >> Yep. >> All right. So then how do I up the fat ratio? Are you talking about just eating more butter? What tips? >> Uh so I mean this is honestly not trying to promote anything. This is why I invented the Keto Brick for me because it made getting a quality fat more convenient. I mean, each one's about 90 gram of fat coming from stic acid, which is usually absorbed and assimilated by the body without any GI distress. So, that's an option, but again, you don't have to do that. So, like my fat sources are uh tallow, ghee, butter, fatty cuts of meat. Like, I'll typically opt for fattier cuts of meat as opposed to adding additional fat when possible. Um, so that's an option. Um, sew it is great. Uh, the the tallow that we use in the bricks is from 100% sew it. So that's good as well. Um, so yeah, just quality fats from natural sources. I'll do avocado oil, olive oil. I'm not, you know, avoiding those per se, but I don't eat a ton of it. Most of mine's coming from animal sources. >> Excellent. Melanie, did you want to add? [laughter] >> Yeah, I um I just eat butter. You know, I'm a I'm a Bella girl, [laughter] >> you know. I just my stick of butter, walk in the [clears throat] kitchen, take a bite off the butter stick, and hey, I'm good to go. What what's y'all's favorite brand of butter? I've I'm a butter connoisseur. What do you all prefer? >> Are you talking about butter? >> Yeah. What What does >> Oh, yeah. So, um, of course, we all know we ditched Cary Gold because that's bad. Uh, but actually, I just found this new one called Truli at Costco. It's a grass-fed butter, non GMO. It's really good. And my other favorite is Kirkland uh grass-fed. But those are And then, of course, there's Millows Bioarm. We can't forget about them. Um, you know, raw butter. >> Nice. Top three for me there as well. Yeah. If you want raw butter though, Miller's does make it super super easy to get raw butter. And their butter tastes like aged cheesy butter. It's so creamy and so rich in flavor. There's a big difference in the flavor. >> H >> They ship it everywhere. Do you like some place? Okay. >> They do. They sure do. They do everywhere. Check that out for sure. >> Even all the way to California. And it's here. It's It's still good. It's nice. Nice. I love it. >> And their cottage cheese is the bomb. All right. Well, >> just saying. >> That's right. Um, let's drop all of our favorite butter brands in the chat, guys. Would love to know. Okay, so Sonia says, "We talk about needed fat for energy. If you have 60 pounds to lose and no gallbladder, should you still consume highfat meats?" So, I get a lot of push back on this one from certain groups in the space because they'll say, "Hey, if you've got a lot of fat to lose, then you should reduce your plate fat." Basically, using the fat as a lever approach, reducing total dietary fat if you have a lot of fat to lose. And that all sounds very intuitively true. It makes common sense um at the first glance. But the thing is, especially if you're not yet deeply fat adapted, if you have a lot of fat to lose, but your body doesn't know how to tap into it because it's not fat adapted, removing your dietary fats is going to leave you feeling miserable. You're not going to have any energy coming in. You're not going to be able to sustain the diet long enough to get deeply fat adapted. So, I recommend that starting with a high dietary fat approach regardless. Um, and then from there, once you become fat adapted, you can titrate that up or down based off how your body's responding. But I typically have a pretty high fat ratio no matter what. I mean, my my dietary fat by way of percentage of total calories always exceeds my protein. And I've been fat adapted for almost 11 years now. So for me, having the energy from that dietary fat coming in and also stored fat is going to allow me to have the higher expenditure, which is going to fuel my training, which is going to build more muscle, which is also metabolically demanding. And the best way to preserve muscle in the context of a deficit when you're trying to lose fat is to keep that muscle in demand. And you can't do that if you're not training and you can't train hard if you're not eating energy. So kind of a roundabout answer there, but yeah, basically my fat ratio is always pretty high. >> Same. >> How high? Very curious to know. Uh, so I'll typically start a competition prep at around 80% of my calories coming from fat and then I'll find that sweet spot for me. The highest my protein will get will typically put my fat ratio at about 65% of my calories coming from fat and then from there I'll start dropping protein as well. I've noticed that men by on average can typically tolerate a little bit lower fat ratio than women. women tend to tolerate higher fat ratio better uh or just they hit that protein threshold sooner than men so to speak. Um and then but I've I've gone as extreme as you know 85 95% fat. Like there was that sugar diet craze that was hitting the internet for a while and I basically did the inverse of that with a super high fats uh approach, super low protein to still stimulate FGF-21 hormone. doubled my testosterone during that span and was doing I think 85 plus or 90% fat during that span. But that's not what I would recommend, you know, long term necessarily. >> That's incredible. Yeah, I I usually fall around 2 to one fat to protein when it comes to total grams in the macronutrients. Um, so I don't know how to convert that into the percentage on how you were explaining. So if it's 2 to one, is that >> Yeah, 2:1 is pretty high. I mean 2 to one's where I feel like one one is where I think the general population typically levels out. Not general population but people fall in keto or carnivore. Uh that's just kind of where they often time I mean a ribeye is one but then they'll put some butter on there and it bumps that up a little bit. Um so I prefer two to one because my cognition is much sharper at 2 to1 as opposed to one to one. >> Exactly. >> I'm the same way. I I I'm the two to one person because especially now that I'm trying to increase my amount of food for my training, but I just don't feel good when I'm one to one. I mean, if I just eat a steak by itself, I'm still looking for something afterwards and I go, gosh, do I have one of Robert's keto bricks in my in my cabinet? No, I don't. But no, I'm kidding. Um, you know, so I'm adding butter or adding something. I might even have some cottage cheese with it or just something because I just don't feel like I'm getting enough fat. And then, you know, I think it kind of goes back to Robert, maybe you can talk to this, is that I still think there's a a a thing out there where women specifically, we they have this thing like, oh my gosh, I cannot eat all this much fat, you know, and and trying to help them guide them and like we do in the steak and butter game to let them know that you got to eat to society. And the two one is really where the sweet spot is for a lot of us, especially if you're wanting to lose weight versus calorie restricting. And then you find yourself going down a rabbit hole and eating all kinds of other bad stuff because you're not you're not sat, you know, feeling satisfied. >> Yeah. There's there's like um you know there's a difference between the satiety that comes from just sheer volume in general like people that are eating a lot of you know low calorie fibrous you know high volume vegetation foods. You yes their stomach is filled full of food but it's like not a truly satisfying deep you know gratifying satiety. And that comes from the right ratio of fat to protein. I mean, this is why when I'm deep into a competition prep and I'm sub 5% body fat and at a lower caloric intake, I prefer an OMAD approach of fat and protein as opposed to just multiple smaller meals that want me leaving like leave me wanting more. Like I would have one larger meal that's actually satisfying than multiple smaller meals that just always leave me, you know, still hungry. Um, and I think with the fat protein dialed in, you have that more deeper, satisfying, gratifying sense of satiety. >> Well said. Love it. Okay, let's move on to this next one. So, I've been dealing Let's see if we already did this. [sighs] Oh, it's also about diarrhea, but it's a different question. So, I've been dealing with chronic diarrhea that seems to slow down a little bit after upping the fat super high beyond what I find desirable. What could be going on here? >> Huh, [laughter] [clears throat] that is interesting. I mean, not to dive too deep into the the excrement story, but yeah, it's just trial and error. Like for me, like if I'm operating on the extremes, I'll notice bowel regularity and consistency change. So, I'll start to change one variable at a time. Maybe that's a different ratio to fat to protein. you know, if someone's just getting fat adapted, if they are having, you know, a downregulation of of bile production, maybe temporarily supplementing with bile salts will help get that upregulated until they're able to just do it all through their own indogenous production. Um, so you can kind of play with a few variables there, but generally speaking, you know, I don't have any of those issues. Um, I mean, I some people are opposed to dairy, but I'll often times, you know, incorporate cheese, and that kind of keeps things pretty consistent as well, um, depending on the type of cheese. So, that could be an option to play around with as well. >> Oh, yeah, for sure. Um, if you have chronic diarrhea, again, maybe just lay off the fats for a bit until your body adapts or like what Robert said, cheese really does help constipate a little bit so it's not as um loose. Okay. Um, what does Savage think about training around your cycles as a woman? Yeah. So, obviously you're going to throughout the different stages of a menstrual cycle, there's going to be periods where you have increased hunger, you have increased power output, you have um you know, periods where you're you're going to have less recovery ability. Like when I'm working with a female client, there'll be like a notable week where she just feels like she's ravenous. There'll be a notable week where she just feels like she can bust through a PR and hit, you know, strength metrics [laughter] that she's never hit before. and there'll be another week where she feels like she's not recovering and just much weaker than normal. When it comes to training through that, you can kind of time your D Lo weeks or D lo days accordingly. Um, but generally speaking, from a nutritional standpoint, what I like to do is just hold things constant so that you have as few variables as possible. So, obviously all the hormonal fluctuations is going to act as a massive variable in and of itself. So the more things that you can control and you know hold constant the better. Um but that said where are you at on the spectrum between and making it sustainable for you? Like if you're going to be ravenous then how can you adhere to the dietary pro? If you're going to feel stronger then maybe make that portion of your cycle the portion where you're trying to you know hit a PR or strength metric. If you're feeling weaker at that point in your cycle, let that be the time where you slack off a little bit on the intensity and make that more of a structured de lo. So, you just adapt accordingly to get through that in the best manner possible. >> Amazing. What are your thoughts on kettle bell training? >> Kettle bells are great. Um, I mean, they're super versatile. You can do so much with them. Um, I mean, you can have like a full-blown workout with a single piece of equipment that's, you know, stored in your closet at home. I mean, there's not a lot of other things that you can do that with. So, kettle bells are great. Um, I think a lot of people, uh, I don't personally train with them much. I'll travel with them sometimes when I'm, you know, on the road and I'll throw one in the truck or something. Um, the main thing with kettle bells, with any form of training, is just to make sure you're getting a well-rounded range of motion throughout the different movement patterns throughout all body parts. So, like if you're doing, you know, kettle bell swings, that's great, but also throw in some, you know, squats with the kettle bell, throw in some rows with the kettle bell, try and throw in some, you know, two-handed curls with the kettle bell. Like, actually try and target every single body part region with a kettle bell and maybe get some, you know, creative insight. You can go to YouTube for different kettle bell exercises, but you can absolutely make a kettle bell work for you for sure. >> Awesome. Melanie, do you use kettle bell? >> Um, you know, I do during certain exercises at the gym, but I haven't ever actually taken one with me to um travel, but maybe I'll think about doing that. [laughter] >> They make some that are like sandbag kettle bells. Yes, they do. And you can not worry about it like clanging around in the back of your [laughter] >> Exactly. Nice. Is it better to do weightlifting during your eating window or before while doing 18 to6 intermittent fasting? >> So the thing about feeding and the longer fasting windows is that what I like to do is I like to train in the morning. So you have to kind of dissect first and foremost when when are you going to train during the day? What's going to be most conducive to your schedule that you're actually going to adhere to? Like if you if there's no way you're going to be able to train in the morning, then take it into consideration. For me, if I don't train in the morning, it's not going to happen. I've got a busy workday. I'm on podcast. Then when I get home, I got my kids. I'm juggling all that. So, if I train in the morning, that's pretty much the only opportunity. So, what I think of it is in terms of fueling that workout, my meal the night prior fuels that next morning's training session. So, the beauty of a keto or carnivore diet is that you're not a slave to the clock anymore. You don't have to worry about eating every two or three hours. You don't have to worry about timing your pre and post-workout nutrition just right. If I have, you know, two hours before I train and I'm eating a meal, it's fine. If I'm training 16 hours between eating and training, that's also fine. Like, it's super adaptable. And that's the beauty of it. >> Absolutely. >> That's so well said, right? Yeah. So good. Um, for me, when I went carnivore, I also, like Melanie said, let go of tracking and counting calories because I had this huge trauma with numbers. Not just counting calories and tracking how many calories I was eating, but also stepping on the scale obsessively, like every single day, multi mult multiple times throughout the day. And it would literally control my mood. Um, it would make me feel devastated if the number went up. And so when I went carnivore, I promised myself that I would just stop focusing on the numbers. And that was really life-changing for me as someone who was 21. And ever since releasing the numbers, I realized that I can just focus on eating when hungry and stopping when full. And so making the shift from not just numbers, numbers, numbers all the time to let's just listen to my body for a while was a huge life-changing shift for my body and my mind. So, I feel like a [snorts] lot of people when they go carnivore, they do tend to overthink it as a newbie. Oh, I got to track. I got to find that perfect protein to fat ratio. I got to find exactly how many calories I should be eating. When really, they should just be enjoying a carnivore diet and just eating the meats that they love, have fun, enjoy, and adapt. How long do you find it takes for people to become fat adapted, Robert? Uh well, first of all, totally agree on all fronts of what you just said. I think that is like I said earlier, the beauty of a keto or carnivore diet. You're able to eat more intuitively. I mean, I started this because I had this disordered eating relationship with food. Like I was binging, purging, like getting away from that was why I started this way of eating in the first place. So like improving that relationship is key first and foremost. Um, to answer your question about length of time for fat adaptation from a cognitive standpoint, I mean, you're technically producing ketones within 24 to 48 hours after cutting out all the unnecessary carbohydrates. And then in that window, you're likely going to start producing ample ketones to measure 0.5 or greater on a blood ketone strip. So, in that regard, you're technically in ketosis, but that is far from being fat adapted. You have to upregulate all those metabolic pathways so that your body is able to efficiently use those ketone substrates for energy that can also cross the bloodb brain barrier and fuel the brain. Um that takes a few more days up to a week. I think from a cognitive standpoint you would notice benefits within the first week for sure. Um the anti-inflammatory nature of ketones is going to be noticeable within the first two weeks if not sooner. from a performance standpoint as it pertains to endurance training and you know weight training that I always recommend people give it at least a solid six months before they definitively say one way or the other that it is or is not working for them. Unfortunately, most of the scientific studies on a ketogenic diet in performance is done in a very short window of time. Like so it's it's always going to paint keto in a negative light because they're not letting the athletes, the participants adapt fully before going into the study. So, I always recommend people give it at least six months from a performance standpoint. That said, the longer you do it, the better it gets. I mean, having done it now for over a decade, it's better than it was the first year. It just keeps getting better. >> Oh, I love to hear that. Melanie, how about you? Any thoughts? >> Yeah. Yeah. No, and I wanted Robert to mention about remember um I think I heard you say on this one your podcast that before when we were in the SAD way of eating when you come to keto carnivore you don't have to worry about that quick eating window when we're done working out right can you talk a little bit about that because I think that's important for people that are fasting or that are say like myself I train empty home immediately and go oh my gosh I have to eat or I have to have something in my car a protein shake or something like that because we have a longer window to spare and then I can eat a full meal when I get home. Can you talk a little bit about that? >> Yeah, 100%. Absolutely. So, like I I used to go as far as, you know, if I didn't have a protein shake 20 minutes post-workout, I would have, you know, lost that anabolic window and all my hard work would be for nuts. And I would even like when I was eating carbs, like I would have a Pixie Stick with me and I would slam that immediately post-workout to intentionally spike my insulin. Um, yeah. I don't do any of that stuff anymore, obviously. So now, >> I mean, when you when you become fat adapted, the especially if you're eating, you know, a pretty solid ratio of fat to protein, that fat is going to slow the absorption and this assimilation of that protein. So, you have a longer window of time for that to just get, you know, soaked up and used by the body for cellular growth and the amino acid dispersement. So, there's that. Um, plus ketones are incredibly anti catabolic and muscle sparing in and of themselves. So, you're not going to really risk losing muscle tissue and wasting away into nothing if you don't have a protein shake immediately afterwards because ketones are very muscle sparing. Now, it does matter whether you're in the context of a surplus or a deficit. Like, if you are in a surplus, then as long as you're getting ample nutrition at some point throughout the course of the day, you're going to be able to build muscle and preserve that muscle just fine. If you're in a deficit, then it may make sense to have a meal, you know, within a few hours of training, but certainly nothing that you have to worry about within a certain 20 minute window. Um, personally, what I like to do is, you know, if I'm in a surplus like I am now, I don't even worry about it. Like, I'll just eat whatever is convenient for me. If I'm in a deficit, especially, you know, extreme deficit, what I'll typically do is I'll try and eat within two or three hours, and I'll have that, you know, post training, and I feel totally fine. So, there's no risk of withering away if you're not having a protein shake post-workout. >> Exactly. >> Amazing. When you prepare for competition, Robert, um, how so do you have a strategic way of cutting down your overall food intake to lower the body fat percentage? >> Yeah, it's very, very specific. So, I've developed like a sevenphase protocol that I use and I put my clients through where I, you know, determine their own unique protein threshold. I'll get them deeply fat adapted. I'll introduce ketogenic caloric refeeds at specific times um to upregulate metabolic function and make it more sustainable. And I'll transition them to a reverse diet after that, you know, peak level of conditioning has been met so they can upregulate hormone function, thyroid health, and overall metabolism in the first place. Uh so it's a very specific seven-phase protocol. Um but yeah, it's uh it's down to a science for sure. I've got it dialed in after years of, you know, manipulating things and getting it perfected. But, um, I do love it. >> Wow. Amazing. And so, after the competition is done, do you find with your clients, do they get a ravenous hunger at all? >> Yeah. I mean, when you're that depleted, I mean, leptin and grein hormones are going to be downregulated. So, you are going to have a more intense craving for food in general, and you're going to be hungry no matter what diet you're on. However, with a ketogenic carnivore diet from a fat metabolism standpoint, you're able to maintain cognition even in the context of that deficit. So, you're able to just go through life and function much more efficiently. Plus, you're able to preserve the muscle you've built much more effectively. And when the show's over, when you eat, like I remember after my first, so my first show, this is where I developed all my eating disorders. I lost 80 pounds in 12 weeks for that first show. Don't recommend that on my worst enemy. After that show was over, I went to Red Lobster, ate a whole bunch of carbohydrates, bunch of food in general, gained 20 pounds overnight and just got sick. It was not good. Don't recommend that either. >> And then now what I'll do post competition is I'll go to a Brazilian steakhouse and I'll literally eat so much food. After this last competitive season, I did five shows. After the last show, I was, you know, I was 3.9% body fat, super depleted. went to Brazilian steakhouse, ate 7,500 calories worth of meat, >> and I woke up lighter the next day. So, like it's a a much healthier approach to post-workout for sure. >> Can you explain to them the reverse just real quick? I know it's kind of in depth, but a lot of people don't understand what the reverse is. Um, when you have >> reverse dieting is applicable whether people compete or not. So, reverse dieting is basically as it sounds, the reverse of dieting. So, if you have been chronically undereating or if you're a competitor that's been restricting your intake and getting leaner and leaner over the course of several months, that does by definition downregulate your metabolic, you know, rate. Um, it downregulates hormone function. Like my testosterone will dip. This is true across the board for any diet. And you can't maintain that low level of body fat and low caloric intake, you know, indefinitely. So, you've got to reverse diet back up to a healthy baseline. That's what reverse dieting is. So basically, I'll strategically, you know, increase my intake while minimizing unnecessary body fat gain so I can kind of just go through life at a much healthier functionable functional, you know, composition. >> And does the reverse happen um while prep prepping for a show or is that after you've done? >> Yeah. Generally speaking, I mean, this is kind of broad brushstrokes here, but generally speaking, personally, I'll diet down for a show over the course of 5 to 6 months. Um, and then after that show's over, I'll reverse diet for about 3 months. That puts me back into a healthy baseline. Then I'll spend the next, you know, several months or years before I compete again because I want to spend time to put on more lean tissue and build muscle before I step on stage again. >> One more followup. So, when I was on a vegan diet, eating high carb, low fat, pretty low protein, um I was eating anywhere from 13 to,500 calories a day. And when I look back at my photos of my vegan days, I look puffier and more um I guess rounder in the cheeks. My body doesn't have as much definition. Um whereas now when I'm on carnivore, highfat carnivore, I'm eating anywhere from 2500 plus calories a day. Um, why is it that when I'm on a carnivore diet, my body and my face as well look so different even when I'm eating way more than I ever have? >> Probably multiaceted. So, some of it's going to be just inflammation, acute inflammation and fluid retention. So, like I'll avoid all vegetation the week of a competition simply because you know we are monogastric species. We don't have a rumin, we don't have a four-chamber stomach. When you eat vegetation, your body has to ferment that, which is going to cause, you know, retention of intestinal fluid, which is going to cause bloat as well. So, not a good look on stage, uh, or just in general. So, I'll avoid carbs for that reason, vegetation for that reason. So, some of what you were holding on to was likely just additional fluid retention from that. Um, and then honestly, you're probably able to eat more now. Not that the energy balance no longer is in effect because that's still, you know, a key driver, but you're probably spending a lot more calories now because you've got more, you know, assimilated nutrition coming in that your body's actually making use of in the context of reduced inflammation and stress. So, you're probably burning much more. So, you're just healthier in general. Like, so many people undereat. And if you're able to find that sweet spot where you're I mean, generally speaking, for all my female clients, like I like to see them maintaining a healthy composition north of 2,000 calories. We may go beneath that for like the very tail end of a competition prep, but generally speaking, I don't like seeing anybody maintaining less than that, you know, on average just dayto-day walking around. >> Yeah. >> I mean, my my my three and a halfyear-old son eats more than 1300 calories. And so many full grown adults eat less than that. It's like, what are you doing? >> I know. And and myself included along with some members, too. They they we sometimes you just can't fathom what 2,000 calories looks like, you know, and it is a lot of food at times, but if if you you know, if you think about what it's doing for you, um it's way better than undereating because I know for a fact I undereat. That that's always been my the biggest issue for me. And then, like you said, you plateau and then, you know, you have to kind of start back over again. And it's just kind of a mind thing, I think, with people that they don't want to eat that much food because they think they're going to gain weight. >> Yeah. And and if you eat too much, you can gain weight. I mean, I eat the exact same thing whether I'm in a competition prep or in a building phase. Like, I eat the exact same quality foods, the amounts of those food and the the distribution of those macros may change, but it's the same types of foods. Now, so many people like we just got to change our our thinking. Like thinking in terms of abundance as opposed to scarcity is a total reframing of the mind. like I would rather eat more. >> There's not they don't there doesn't need to be a negative connotation around the word calories. Like that could be that's just fuel. It's fuel. Like if you're fueling your body then take that additional fuel and go live your life to the fullest. But make sure you're doing stuff with that fuel and actually putting it into action, you know? >> Yeah. That's what we call priming, right, Bella? [laughter] >> That is just it's so aligned. Every time Robert answers a question or explains something further, I'm just agreeing fully. And this whole mindset shift of living in abundance versus scarcity is something that I think a lot of um carnivores in this space still have difficulty fully living. So a lot of carnivores will tend to live in fear instead of living in curiosity. These are new carnivores, not the long-term ones or even just carne curious viewers. They're afraid of what a carnivore diet might do to their heart health. They're afraid of what eating butter might do to their waistline. You're not going to know until you try it, you know, and they they just always want the shortcut. So, how how do you convince your clients, Robert, to stop thinking like that? It's like, I just want results now, yesterday, to let's go the long path and have results that last forever. >> Yeah, this is I mean, this could be a whole podcast in of itself. [laughter] Um, especially if someone's like coming from a place of chronically undereating. Like if they're coming to me, and I see this all the time with like women that have been chronically restricting, their goal is to lose weight and I'm here telling them that I'm going to have them eating more food. They may temporarily gain more weight. It's a very hard cell as a coach. Um just in general big picture mindset conversations like you got to play the long game. You got to figure out what you can sustain for a lifetime and chip away at. The thing about nutrition, the thing about what you put in your mouth every single day has a compounding effect. You know, if you look at financial metaphors, you know, in a retirement account, a Roth account, like chipping away every single day, adding a little bit, that compounded over a lifetime makes a massive difference. The same is true on a much more prominent level with the food you consume and the way you go through the day-to-day. And you've only got one vessel to go through life in. You've only got one body. If you are not taking care of it and serving, you know, your health, you know, your creator, your fellow family and friends at the highest capacity possible, then you're just selling yourself short. Life's too short to go through life hindered. Be the best you can be. Live to the fullest. Have that long game approach and mentality and recognize that how you fuel that body is one of the single best things you can do to set yourself up for success for the long haul. >> Beautiful words. So well, thank you for that. We'll do a couple more questions here. And neither Silver says, "What is a good source to learn more about fat to protein ratios?" >> Uh, I mean, trial and error is going to be the key thing. I mean, you have to figure, everyone's going to be different. So, there's not like a one-stop set it and forget it approach. Like, I would be doing you a disservice to just say, "Hey, do this ratio." Um, you know, you gota what I'll typically do is I'll start at that higher fat ratio and then I'll titrate protein up by five or trim increments while simultaneously dropping fat by five or 10 gram increments until I find that unique sweet spot. Um, that's going to be the most accurate scientific way to go about it. Um, and then just be mindful of how your body's responding and what it's telling you. But there's not going to be any single set it and forget it approach to anybody. >> Exactly. >> Oh, this is a good one here for you. Does carnivore diet boost testosterone? >> Um, yes. It's testosterone is a funny thing because I mean I get routine lab work done on a regular basis. I recommend my clients do as well. Testosterone changes drastically based off of, you know, how what your body composition is. So, my testosterone in the building phase is going to be vastly different from what it is in the cutting phase. Um, and if you're a male, once you get below, you know, 8% body fat, testosterone really starts taking a nose dive, which is why reverse dieting and coming out of that deficit is so important in the first place. Um, but when it comes to carnivore specifically, you got to make sure you're consuming adequate dietary fat. I mean, testosterone, the precursor to testosterone is cholesterol. So, you got to make sure you're consuming ample fat to have the precursors in place to create that testosterone. Um, and then making sure you're eating at a surplus, you know, strategically is going to be key as well. Um, and same is true for both male and female. Um, so yeah, you don't want to be downregulating your dietary fat. This is why so many conventional bodybuilders who only eat 30 grams of fat a day have very very low testosterone throughout a vast majority of their fat loss phase in general because they're not giving their body the precursors it needs. >> Got it. Uh, so someone wanted to ask your body fat percentage in the photo that I showed. Um, so Chuck says, "Was that 3.9% in the picture that I showed earlier with this one right here?" No, that was probably that was in 2020. So I was prepping for a competition in 2020 and then literally a week before the show on that one, COVID, that's when CO was. So the competition got cancelled. So I got a photo shoot done. So there I was probably at like 6 or 7% body fat. Um, but I've got some of me at 3.9% on my Instagram and my keto bodybuilding.com website. So yeah, 3.9% is crazy. That was literally I was the leanest man on planet earth for that period of time. But >> I was just going to say we have to prop up um Robert for his leanest man in 2023 that he was voting for. So yeah. Yeah, that that was a it was a cool feat, but I mean that's far from optimal from a health standpoint. I wouldn't recommend anybody do that from a health standpoint, [laughter] >> right? Of course. Of course. Amazing, though. Well, Robert, how can we support you, this carnivore community here on my YouTube channel? How can we support your work? How can people watching work with you directly as well? >> Uh, just spreading the word. I mean, we're all fighting the good fight here. There's a little bit of nuance. Everybody's got a different take on things. Everybody's got a different story, but the fact that we're all working together to eat, you know, have people eating real food is awesome. So, I just appreciate the opportunity to come and speak to your community. Um, as far as me specifically, um, keto bodybuilding.com is where I offer my coaching. I've got an online course. I've got a book. That's where all the content and educational information is hosted. And then if people are interested in the bricks, we make those in house. That's a ketobick.com. >> Amazing. So guys, just so you know, I saw a lot of questions asking, this playback will be posted live on my YouTube channel, so you can watch it forever. If you guys want to share this video as well, it will also really help to spread the word. So go ahead and like this video, comment, and share. Um, Robert, thank you so much. All of your links are linked down below in the description box, and I can't wait to keep talking to you. >> Thank you. I appreciate it, >> Robert. Thanks for being here. It's been awesome. Been awesome.

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