Microsoft Vibe Coding RCEs; Ring tracking "pets"; Discord Age Verification - Talking Heads Ep.420

It's crazy. >> Miserable. I am not happy about it. >> Yeah. All right. With that, uh, we are live. >> Awesome. >> Cool. Welcome to Talking Heads, everyone. Episode 420. Chris was so mad he missed that by one week last week, by the way. >> Oh, >> I didn't even realize it was episode 420. >> Yeah, we're on 420. It's 420 today. >> Got to bring the jokes. >> Yes, exactly. Uh, >> there's only a few internet numbers and now we hit one of them. >> I grabbed the wrong can. Um, I'm gonna I'm gonna text real quick because uh I had a beer set aside specifically for this and then I grabbed a different beer. So, um, one sec. >> I'm at the founders all day. Simple. You I'm sure you're going to have something much more fancier. Oh, someone says, "What's what's Tom, man?" Oh, I think it cut in just as I said I was upset. I am unhappy with the weather here in Detroit. It is unseasonably cold. Doesn't mean I'm not outside in it. It just means I don't like it. >> Right. Yeah. Yeah. And uh we've been unseasonably warm uh all winter long. Like uh and and dry, very dry. Um like we normally have like 30 foot snow packs. I think one of our main uh mountain runs is down to six feet. Uh like we're not getting snow, we're not getting rain of any kind. It's it's bad. Which is going to be a brutal fire season this year. >> Um so yeah, not looking forward to this >> direct path of danger or is it just smoke for you? >> Um no. Uh all of Oregon is uh naturally uh prone to wildfires. Um it it's only when we settled Oregon and and started you know building cities and things like that we decided wildfire is bad and so we started cutting brush back. Oregon is naturally spruce trees which are fire propagating trees. Uh they they release their seeds when the fires come through. >> We stopped the fires so the spruce trees died out and up popped the Douglas furs and evergreens and things like that. And so we dramatically changed the topology and ecology of Oregon over the last 150 200 years. Um but Oregon naturally wants to burn. So I think it's going to burn this year a lot. For years Detroit kind of did that where it did this burn thing a lot. Unrelated to trees or anything else, but it [laughter] was definitely a thing that went on for a little while. But uh it's weird. It's strange to me because I we have limited amounts of forest fires into far northern Michigan, but it's something that is unheard of and not we've never had it down here and there's not any potential for types of trees we have and things like that. So, it's like a weird thing for me to think about that it could happen in like a I'm in a slightly suburban area so it's just kind of a hard thing we think about it. I you know terrible and tragic what happened in LA but it was also like wow that is like a neighborhood that this happened to. >> Yeah. Um yeah. No. Uh, where I live at in Oregon, we're we're on the edge of one of the cities. Uh, we're we're on the edge of Salem and but it's naturally grassland and and forests like it very easy to spread uh in in this area. It's >> Oregon urban is not like LA urban or or even Detroit urban. Yeah. It's >> nothing's quite like Detroit urban, >> right? [laughter] Exactly. special. >> Ah, anyway, episode 420, your once week live show for latest in beer and tech news. I'm Jeff >> and I'm Tom. >> He's Tom. Welcome to the show everyone. Thank you all so much for joining us on this Wednesday night or in podcast over on Spotify or wherever your favorite podcasts are found. If you've never seen the show before, we talk beer, we talk all things home labs, servers, uh, enterprise, gaming, anything that we kind of like to talk about. We're nerds. if you couldn't tell. Uh, all super chats are right on the air so long as they will not permanently demonetize my channel. We do drink alcohol on the show. And if you're drinking along with us, alcoholic or not, let us know in the chat and we'll give some early show shoutouts as we go along. Last but not least, if you'd like to take part in the super secret chat in the even more super secret afterparty, think about joining the Patreon. As a bonus, you'll get exclusive access to my Discord server, which is totally not a loaded phrase to say here today. Uh, [laughter] you can get access to my Discord server. We will talk more about Discord later on. We're not happy with it, but it is the thing that keeps us all connected right now. Uh, and join the awesome community that hangs out over there. Cool. Cool. Uh, well, I was going to open a beer. Uh, >> but you lost your beer. >> Yeah. Um, I I I had a beer. Uh, >> that should have been the title of the show. I had a beer. >> I had a beer. [laughter] Gosh darn it. Uh oh man. Caught [snorts] up with the chat reading everyone said there. [laughter] >> We went straight to scotch tonight says uh Z Gamer. That's a that's a good news. >> That's where I will be after this beer. I Well, I you know what? I should go to scotch. So, I'll probably go to whiskey, but scotch. >> Yeah. >> Uh I don't know that this is blasphemous on this channel, but I'll bring it up. I tried some non-alcoholic beer and I liked it. >> I love >> I don't know if this is blasph Okay. >> Not at all. No. >> All right. I I got to admit, um I have a friend and he's a big German dude. >> Well known for his drinking and shenanigans, but uh through some health issues and he still likes to go to the bar. He had some Guinness and told me it was the best non-alcoholic beer. And I was like, "Well, I'll give that a go." And I am shocked. It doesn't taste exactly the same, but it tastes really good. And I have now acquired a bunch of these because I was like surprising how good this is. So, um I give a shout out for those of you that go, "Well, I want a little less alcohol in my life, but I want something that still tastes like Guinness." Uh I color me impressed. Not sponsored. >> I I haven't tried the Guinness NA, but I've heard very similar things uh from from my friends who have who have tried it that it is it is awesome. But uh no, I'm actually a really big fan of NA beers as well. Um, uh, uh, Athletic Brewing out of California does some amazing NA beers. Uh, >> yeah, they have the IPA is called the IPA one they have. >> Yeah, the Wild Ride IPA, I think is what that one's called. U, they've also got a Golden Aele, which is fantastic. >> Um, Dashes over in Bend has also been making a number of non-alcoholic beers. I think they call it their Nommo series. Uh, and uh, they've got two or three beers out, including, uh, Blackbeat Porter and, uh, uh, gosh, what's the other one? Um, Obsidian Stout. They have non-alcoholic beers of some of their most famous beers. Uh, and they're fantastic. So, >> someone said they like my shirt. So, if you haven't seen it before, it's the [laughter] back. It's at the bottom. It says raid is not a backup. It's just >> Hey, that's my phrase. >> Okay. I think it's all Look, it's all of ours. We This is a community effort to remind people. >> Yes. >> On a good note, I like to start out with something positive here because we were we have plenty to complain about today or any day. But because we we still don't have memory, we still have hard drives. That rant's coming. But the uh I had someone and they are aware RAID's not a backup. >> Yeah. >> They were a SIS admin with a task of storing lots of data for this company uh media company and they were not given the budget for one. They knew they needed more than one NAS. They did not give the budget for two NAS, right? So, uh things happened and uh I had to help them recover a NAS and I'm happy to say I was able to get it recovered. I'm also would like to and I don't know if this is worthy of a video that I may do on the topic, but I seen this happen to someone else recently on Reddit over in the Trinass forum. Please don't assume that the LLMs know the right commands for ZFS. So, and uh I will tell you I did I and I do use LMS to look things up that I may not know because it is actually sometimes faster than Googling things. Yeah. Uh referencing things and it did make up a few commands. They weren't real. I knew they weren't real. So, we didn't have to worry about me further damaging things. Uh but it was helpful in the big picture of uh helping this person resolve the issue. It's just it was just tricky to do because um they had I think it was 18 drives. I don't know exact number. Um, anyways, quite a few of them and one of them would fail, but it kept telling us it was a little mystery as to which one. So, we eventually popped that drive out once we figure out which one was failing and then it imported. It's kind of weird. It wouldn't skip that disc that was bad. >> Yeah. >> A string problem. Um, but all imports failed. We also had to roll back some transaction groups. There's a a couple commands for that. But, uh, it it's kind of interesting because I I always warn people and they a reach out to me for ZFS recovery. I said, first, I'm going to charge you for my time no matter what. >> Yeah. >> Two, uh, cuz I just can't predict the outcome. And two, I probably recommend you try at least and I'll give them a handful of things to try before you even book me because I I just if you have a bunch of drives missing, I don't want to waste your money. I don't want to add insult to injury. Yeah. >> But uh it turned out though uh pretty good. I'm happy to say we recovered all of 100% of his data other than the few seconds it lost, but it was at night, so we don't really know what was lost because nothing really records then. So >> yeah, data recovery is one of those weird things that there are specialized companies that do nothing but data recovery out there for a reason. And while I'm happy to help you, um, I can and I can certainly help narrow down what what issues are out there or or might have, you know, impacted you. Um if if it is a known data loss issue with multiple concurrent problems stacked on top of it, you know, we had a a drive physically die and then when they went to replace it, they dropped the spare or they pulled out the wrong cage or, you know, when you start compounding the issues, my chance of success is even further down than it was to start. >> Um so data recovery company is where I will is where I will send you. And ZFS recovery is its own black magic. There's >> Wendle and Al and Jude did a great talk about it. If you look in ZFS recovery, if you like search that on YouTube, generally that video of Wendle and Alen come up. They are by far the foremost experts in it. But um also that video shows the complexity of what ZFS recovery looks like. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. All right. Uh well, my beer is here, so I think we can officially start the show now. Um it is episode 420. I set this beer aside because it was episode 420 and then I grabbed the wrong can. Uh, from Dashuites Brewing, Symphonic Chronic 9% West Coast IPA. Um, and to say that this one is 420 inspired is putting it lightly. Um, flavor profile is dank. [laughter] And then a wild Dakota appeared in stream which is really funny. I don't know if he got tagged and saw he got tagged or he just happened upon the stream but the the very first comment in chat that I received tonight an hour before the show started was I published that it was going to be me and Tom on the show [snorts] and White Knight uh posted in the chat, "Yay, two of my favorite YouTuber creators together. we just need Dakota and we'll have all three. And I said,"Well, funny story. Dakota lives 20 minutes from me. Do you want me to go get him?" And just drop in a joke. And then five minutes before we go live, it bearded dad appears in chat and says, "Hey, everyone." So, hi Dakota. [laughter] Hello. Hello. [snorts] [sighs] All right. Now, I feel like I can start the show. >> Yeah. Now we've come to the proper beginning of the show. >> Exactly. The beer's been poured. We've announced what we're drinking. >> And I didn't mention it, but uh I was going to say great great choice on the uh the Founders All Day IPA, too. That's one of my favorites around here. >> It's just a good beer. I I keep keep it stocked in the fridge and yep, happy stuff. Um, I'm sure many of your audience would be excited to learn that Tom has been diving into Proxbox and setting up Proxmbox servers and breaking Proxmbox servers. >> Really? [laughter] >> Yeah. It's um so different than XCPNG. And I understand now why people break it so often because it simply doesn't ask. It says, "Hey, you said to do it." I mean, it might be completely bad idea. It may explode in some way, but we'll say yes to that and just hit okay and next. and apply or whatever. >> Yeah, Proxmox for all of its strengths and and uh I love Proxmox because of how generic it is. >> It's it's Linux with KVM wi with a whole bunch of of nicities added in. But at its core, it is about as generic of a hypervisor as you can possibly get and as open source and free to use as a hypervisor as you can possibly get. >> Yeah. Um, that being said, it has no guardrails. Um, and so those who are ambitious or want to try something out, you're free to install whatever services or side load or whatever else you want. Also, Proxmox doesn't really have an operator or a manager role. You're root. You log in and you are root. and anything that you do just goes >> right. I also the quirkiness of it is a little annoying. I've had lock files show up places that seem to hang up things. You know, I was setting up PBS server and it had a permissions problem cuz I did not set the permissions right. That's me. Yeah. But when I did fix the permissions, it still gave the same error. So I'm like, okay, why is it giving the error? Do a little digging, go to the command line, it created a lock file. you have to manually remove the lock file and then the error goes away. I'm like, "This is kind of weird. It won't check the permissions again." Little quirks like that I've run into. Another weird one. I was moving VMs over, which I don't know if that's a video I should do because it is arbitrarily easy to get VMs off of one hypervisor to another um that both XCP and G have their import tools and they work >> and they work really well. Yeah. >> Yeah. I was like, "This is kind of like a no-brainer moving things over." Except uh weird default on XCPNG versus uh Proxmox. I use MongoDB with grey log. Well, I use MongoDB in several things. MongoDB needs AVX extensions. The default CPU it creates doesn't pass through the AVX extensions of the CPU. >> Yeah, >> minor thing, but you know, solvable problem. Yeah. But if someone didn't know MongoDB needed AVX extensions, this could be the first time someone's hearing this. This is a problem you run into. Yeah, >> cuz it's a Docker container. It won't start. And it doesn't give you the exact error message. It just says fail to start exit 132, but it's actually because it's missing the AVX extension. So >> yeah. Um yeah, by default, uh so you can change your CPU type in most hypervisors. So you can present whatever CPU you want. um airing on the side of compatibility, Proxmox defaults to um I forget which what exactly they call it. Um but basically it is a C a virtual CPU type from around 2011. Uh it has SSE2 SSE 3 extensions and it has a couple of other like very very common 20-year-old standard ex uh you know uh instruction [snorts] sets. Uh but that's it. Uh so if you want AVX, you need to present it with a CPU type that has AVX instructions as part of its its layout. Um most of the time I will uh uh just do a host pass through um because I'm I'm not transferring VMs a lot. Uh I don't really need vCPU types. I just and and host will give you the best performance because it's literally just a onetoone instruction. >> That's what I chose. I thought that was out there. that was the default. Essentially, it's kind of the default in XCPNG, but it's a little bit nuanced because the the CPU parameters get passed through on hypervisor of XCPNG are the lowest common denominator. So, if you have >> a certain generation of CPU and an older generation in the same pool, the lowest generation is what we default to. And it and that's automatic. It's simply like, well, what happens if I remove it? Well, it and it's yeah, it automatically update the pool. It actually lets you know the pool's in like a these higherend CPUs are in compatibility mode because the the dumbest one, you know, we got to dumb it down for the dumbest guy in the room. So, [laughter] >> right, >> kind of the feature, but as soon as you eject that from the pool, all your all the functions just come back. Yeah. >> Um, so it's kind of it a little nuance things like that. It's kind of I I don't know the I will admit the storage performance is a lot faster, but it's because it's ZFS. It's not faster if you're using the same Qcow. Qcow is Qcow and there's not a massive difference. But if you're using ZFS and then you build all your VMs and Z valves, they're faster. >> So answering the question of is there people want me to do benchmarks because I'm using exactly the same hardware? I've got three of the same machines. And I'm like, I can do the benchmarks, but on which file system? What are you setting up? Because even if I did the benchmarks, they won't answer your question in XTPG to do because there's a file system. [laughter] There's not right multiple and that weird multiple bit. So, there's lots of little stuff that I've been learning, but it's makes it makes for some good content. And I seen someone suggested putting the backup server on. Um, that's actually the first video I'm doing is not about getting started with Proxmox, but how to set the backup server up. >> Yeah, >> because I just think that's critical. And >> I realize there's not any good guides for how to put it on Trunass. And so, I'm making a good guide and it's going to be contentious because I s I'm doing it with containers and I already posted that. not Docker system containers. And those are something I realized very quickly >> that people don't understand. So now before I get that video, I'm doing a video of virtualization versus system container versus Docker. >> And because people think Docker and container always the same thing. I'm like, no, they're not. And >> it it's the same root concept, but completely different execution. Exactly. Yeah. >> Yeah. So understanding um where the ZFS problems come in when you want to manage your backup data have really high speeded access you want a system container not a docker and you certainly don't want to put it in a VM which seems to be common I've seen a lot of answers and I'm not always right so I figured you know what I'll do and me and Wendell I and I didn't want to do this in a vacuum because me and Wendle were already having we've been having an ongoing proxmox discussion and many many of you probably have watched or watched Wendell's channel as well level one text he just dropped a video called um pro the pro proxmox guide for VMware refugees something along those lines but yes >> it's a good guide and um me and Wendle have a whole discussion on some of that uh I had some tweaks and stuff that I had sent him so he thanked me in the video for it so I'm trying to put these together as some really good guys as I told him I said you know I can't I don't dislike Proxmox but I see all the problems with it and I thought it was more indicative of Proxmox it's mostly just a lot of bad advice and so >> yeah Yeah. Um, like I said, the at its core, it's just generic Linux services that that has a really nice wrapper on it. Um, there there's nothing really custom under the hood as far as the virtualization engine goes. >> Um, >> and so if you're looking for, you know, stable, functional, compatible, it's great. Um, >> so >> but it's >> but because it's Linux, there's also 8,000 potential ways to set it up or, you know, little tweaks you want to make to it to make your life better that break someone else's workflow that no one ever takes into account. >> Among the things Wendell has in his notes and mentioned in his video is if you don't have seven at least uh PVE boxes to tied together, don't turn Seph on. Um, [laughter] it's it's just not for everybody. There's there's it's not that it's a bad thing, but you will run into a lot of problems with smaller amounts of stuff. And even Wendell [clears throat] um told me he went off the rails a couple times and had catastrophic failure of it, and he says it wasn't worth recovering. It was all lab stuff he's setting up. He's just like, it's this is really broken. Yeah. >> Uh Seth fails in a catastrophic way. It's amazing tool, but it's also just it just needs more systems. It needs seven is kind of a more sweet spot if you really need hypercon converge, you need some performance and >> um it's like the people who tell me to run Kubernetes all the time like of course I need Kubernetes for my five Docker things. [laughter] That makes sense. >> And then that's what those that's what aggravates home leverage. They start at the deep end. They start on Seth and Kubernetes because someone said that's the way right you know there may have been some guy yelling you need to learn Kubernetes right now and that's what got him into stuff. But [laughter] >> first I'm gonna go make some coffee. Hold on. >> Yeah. Hold on. Nice coffee. And then I will sip on it repeatedly. [laughter] >> And then we're going to hit go. And then we're going to take a sip for our coffee. >> Mhm. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> We're not talking about anyone in between. >> Love you, bro. [laughter] [gasps] >> Seth is Zoyberg approved. Yeah. I mean, does the crab game run on Seth at the back end? Possibly. That would make sense. Uh oo I mean crabs is kind of a bullet hell in a sense. So maybe >> yeah got to have distributed storage somehow. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> How do you do you run you run Proxmox backup server, right? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Do you run it on your truness? >> Uh I do not. I run it as a standalone bare metal box. Uh because I went with my microcloud and so I've got eight nodes to fill and so I went might as well. >> Oh, perfect. All right. Yeah, that uh that is a the best way to run it. Um I just put I I figured Sure Dance with the fact that we can't really buy hard drives at an affordable rate and memory is not. Um not everyone has a micro cloud. >> Yeah, >> even though maybe people should. We >> It's a great buy today, let me tell you. And it only uses DDR3, which is less than a dollar a gig still. So >> yeah. >> Yeah. the whole thing is uh crazy right now [clears throat] with my we'll talk if you want I can dive into my NAS problems but the first problem I have is the the drives I bought in 2023 that I paid I was looking at I looked up the receipt I paid $137 for those drives they are currently $39 each like >> oh how no I've I've got some some 18 terbte drives I was looking at expanding recently and those are five or $600 $00 right now. Um, we talked six months ago maybe um about, hey, what's the best value in hard drives? Like where's the the best bang most capacity for the buck right now? And it was in 12 and 14 terbyte drives. Those were starting to approach about $100 a disc. Those are 250 bucks now again. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Well, is a 14 terabytes. Look at they're 309. And that's on serart deals reertified. >> Yeah, exactly. No. Yeah. 12 TB drives are back up to 250 or so. >> Yeah. >> When when they were bottoming out at 99 bucks, even $90 if if you didn't want like a full match set. >> Yeah, it's absolutely insane. >> Oh man. And it's going to be a long couple of years. >> Oh, someone disagrees with Wendell's opinions on Seth. Interesting. I I don't know. I I don't I can I agree with Wendell on it being complicated because only because I've seen so many people lose data. Yeah. >> Most of my knowledge from Seph I get from 45 Drives. They're my authority um for I literally outsource Seth work to them >> uh for commercial Seph work and they are considered quite Seth experts. Um, so I don't know that they disagree with Wendell, but if if I had to pick the two, I would pick that. But most of Wendle's advice has just been >> it's running it in small scale is probably not practical. Not impossible, but not practical, not reasonable. You can kill your IOPS trying to sync it between there depending on how your eraser coding is set up. Yeah, [clears throat] >> that's actually and it's a the bigger discussion would be anytime you're running hypercon converge storage, you have to really have a lot of good fast hardware and interconnect to get it to perform because if I have to write to this and then wait for that right to sync across clusters. >> Yeah, >> that is much harder to do than just running local ZFS on each of your prox nodes. there's a substantial IOPS difference and that's often where I've run into people who built it wanted hypercon converge because they want their database application to work which is terrible for Seth in that situation. >> Yeah. Um what I will say is I I think there's there's a difference in uh how do I put this? Um Wendell was advocating for you probably don't need Seph unless you need seven systems. If if you need >> the compute and the storage of seven boxes, that's when the the switch over really starts to make sense for most people. If you are an organization that has three servers and you went cool, we meet the minimum requirements for running Seph, you probably don't need to run Seph. And I I think that's what kind of what he was trying to vocalize. And I and I think that's what that's what Yakoto in the chat is. >> Complexity with very little value. Yeah. and in fact and in fact and in fact at that low of a node count it's it going to be a detriment to performance in certain applications. Um and while it's resilient if your IOPS tank and you lose sync of of a SQL database because your IOPS literally can't keep up with it and you and you end up trashing your server SE was not the right application for you. Um Seph is really a sliding scale of requirements, performance, resiliency, etc. and you have to hit the sweet spot for it to make sense. If you only have three virtualization servers and they're all pinged to 100% and you went, what what why don't we go hyper, you know, highly available with them and and we'll just sync Seth across all of those three nodes, you're going to tank your performance because you were pushing those systems to the max. If you upgrade those to five or seven systems, yeah, sure, Seth might work, but you're going to get the performance of those three that you had. you get the extra resiliency, not the extra IOPS. Yeah, >> there there was a fun competition. Uh I think it started in Reddit. There was a throwdown of who could build some of the fastest SE clusters and what was required of it. >> And it was really interesting because the folks at 45 Drives were participating in this maybe a year ago. And what I liked about it was it showed where you could get performance and stuff, but they were of course detailing all the hardware. And it's kind of like that meme, you know, we succeeded, but at what cost? Because I mean, literally they're like, "Oh, no problem. We have Seph uses the term public private." So public is the place at which you interface the data. Private is the synchronization network that you build uh that synchronizes Seth. That synchronization network I think they had built was all 100 gig interconnects with a lot of fast like it was >> we hit we hit those IOP numbers. Oh, this ain't a cheap system anymore. like this is um >> yeah, >> that's all it really is. It's like it's not that you can't build it, it's not that it won't work. Um and that's frequently where the Homeland people be when they're standing up proof of concept and I run into this a lot. I actually have a consulting uh project on Monday for this where someone wants to move their 200 terabytes of VMs and I forget exactly number of VMs. I remember 200 terabytes on vSphere right now in their VM storage. Um they want [clears throat] to migrate it all over but they've been testing Gosh, at least they did this. They realized when they started moving a couple applications over, they're like, "It doesn't seem to perform well with the hypercon converged." I'm like, "What'd you build it with?" They're like, "Mini PCs." I'm like, "Awesome. [laughter] That's not This is probably why you didn't." >> Yes, you're correct. >> Yes. [laughter] So, they're like, "It works, but it doesn't work, you know?" So, it it's kind of this slidy scale like you said of understanding of what is the hardware application, what you're going to do with it. It's not that it doesn't work, it's does it work for the demands that your workload is uh going to put on there, right? And those are those are always the big challenges. >> Yeah. Yeah. It when you get into complex technologies like Seth, it's hard to give black and white if this then that type advice. Uh because every customer, every installation is going to be just a little bit different. um you know, hey, we're running, you know, web services uh that, you know, we're we're doing hosted web services for for a thousand different clients. Cool. Seth might make sense for you then because it's a lot of little IOPS. It's a lot of little things that you can replicate very easily across multiple nodes. You need high availability. You need those type things versus I need this one database to be very hyperformant across three different regions around the globe. maybe some kind of sync tool would be more more down the alley that you need to look at rather than hypercon converged. So >> it and it's actually funny because if you're dealing with modern applications, you need less hypercon converge because you're relying more so on the database synchronization where there's multiple nodes running and the databases talk to each other and stay in sync etc. Modern design has lots of tooling for that. that if I'm building an application today, I don't make it dependent on a singular application running in a docker or a virtual machine or anything like that. You build resiliency at the application level. >> So, you're architecting things different. But unfortunately, I live in the real world where legacy applications live on an incredible amount of time. Um, >> yeah, I I was just learning today my I was shocked [clears throat] to learn my friend had to buy a bunch of uh he had to get Windows 10 extended support and it's one of it's a really widely back used widely used backend tool for hosting all of your own video. It handles all the thumbnails. It's a really cool transcoding system even though it's written in Python. the guy that writes it who still maintains it a person and it's used it's like this it's well you ever go to a lot of sites and you notice that the video player looks the same in a lot of them and it's kind of cool and you're like this works really well everyone use it because it works well the person only likes writing things in Windows that writes it the [laughter] person that's undoubtedly a grave beard with belt and suspenders but they also don't like Windows 11 they've decided that because extended support exists until it doesn't exist for 10 they will not update for 11. This person has decided that's what people need to buy. Yes, [laughter] we're we're exactly at that point. [sighs and gasps] Yeah. Yep. [laughter] Ah. Uh we do have some super chats that rolled in. Uh uh Terrell, I believe is how you say that. Terry. Terrell. Sorry. Terry. Terry LLC. I don't know. Uh, we'll we'll go with Terry. Uh, send over $2. Thank you very much. Uh, http420 enhance your calm. Yes, the unofficial official HTTP code for today's episode of 420. Enhance your calm. >> I like that the bearded tea dad donated $4.20 to us. >> Oh, thank you so much, Dakota. [gasps] Uh, Terap sends over for five bucks. Uh, thank you so much. Uh, okay. I will be that guy. just run everything on FreeBSD. >> Yes, >> you and Vince would get along so well. Uh, you need to get in touch with Circuit Rewind. Uh, and yeah, Dakota 420. Happy 420 episode. Thank you so much, good sir. [sighs] [panting] [gasps] One of these days, you and I finally have to get together for a beer. Like, like I've seen you once or twice, but only like in Vegas. Like, we need to do that locally. Like, let's go get a beer. Uh, either that or we fly out to Michigan and we get a beer together, like the three of us. >> Get a Michigan beer. >> Yeah, we'll get a Michigan beer. >> Uh, how far is New Holland from you? I I I always wanted to pay New Holland to visit. >> Um, I think they have a place in Detroit, but the actual location is about three hours from me. >> Okay. >> So, that's not bad. >> Not [laughter] Yeah. Not not not real far. >> Um, Grand Rapids is kind of the place where there's a lot of breweries that part of the state. Our big cities are Detroit, uh, Ann Arbor to College Town. So, there's definitely plenty of breweries there. Arbor Brewing and, uh, many of those. And then we have the Grand Rapids area, which is a few more hours away. An Arbor is only about a half hour away from me. >> Gotcha. Gotcha. >> Uh, and then Zeus sends over $5. Thank you very much. I have seven nodes, one mini PC, and six Pi Zeros with 512 GB micro SD cards. [laughter] >> You want to make sure you got resiliency if you're running out of micro SD cards. I'm just saying. Uh there is some limited right durability with them. Overall, you know, they seem to last a lot longer than most people think. I' I've had very few of them fail. I still I still have a bunch of Raspberry Pies doing things. >> They uh micro SDs have gotten a lot better over the years. However, they are not still what I would call resilient enough for a heavy OS. Uh so >> yeah, >> even a modern ibuntu install, let alone a modern Windows install. Like I've uh I've seen a lot of people try to install like Windows 11 on a 128 gig micro SD just for giggles and it'll last like a month. Like the the the right cycles for for a modern OS with page files and everything else, it just doesn't work. >> Um so but if Zeus is but if someone's going to break something, it's probably going to be Zeus. So I like that Yaku is saying I'm advocating resiliency after dissing on the resilient distributed. I'm not dissing on it. [laughter] I'm just saying understand the use case for it. Understand where to use it. That's it's not dissing on it. It's it really my bitterness frequently comes and I don't want to be better, but I'm not. But sometimes from all the people who um >> I know you're getting to the you're getting to be that age. That's okay. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. You know, the the people who I I [snorts] I don't blame the system, but obviously someone didn't give them the budget to have us have a backup of all of their data for a media. This is a business, a media company. Um, and all the people that reach out to me for consulting with broken stuff clusters and things like that on Proxbox. It's not it's it's quite a few and they've just updated it and broke it. They've had performance issue. It's it comes down to a lot of configuration and it is a lot of them not knowing what to do and what we said earlier of there's no guardrails on on Proxbox. So, it says click here to install Seph. That's cool. >> Cool. I'll install Seph. What if I don't want Seph anymore? Ooh. Ooh. Yeah. Now [laughter] what what if it updates and it doesn't do the thing and now we don't know how it all works. So yeah, it is part of that. So I will I will grant it I have a bias. I uh Yakto completely Seth is a brilliant like I've seen some amazing stuff that the folks over at 45 did we me and Jeff when we were there played the game of uh >> Seph Jenga Jenga >> you know so we all the fun has been had we know the level of brilliant engineering that goes into Seph and how resilient it is and can be >> and by the way I'm the one that toppled the Seth cluster finally and I I will call BS because a lot of people were like oh remove one hard drive or remove one network cable I got a power cable on the core switch for my last pick. Uh so so the main interconnect uh I I took it down. [laughter] [gasps] Uh the PC archive sends over $5. Thank you very much. Uh I can't wait for the day that I can get a job spending someone else's money on cool hardware. I love it and I'm always learning. Um I had that job for 13 years and it was great to have a $1.3 million budget of someone else's money to spend on hardware. The problem is I had also things like objectives that needed met and [laughter] yeah >> um you know costbenefit analysis and and corporate meetings and and al allocation of funds and all the all the nitty-gritty that went into the spending of that much money. I don't miss I don't miss that at all. uh >> the meetings. >> Yeah. >> You know, the nice thing is because I have been independent since uh November. First week of November. >> Yeah. >> I haven't had to open Slack since the first week of November. [laughter] I closed it then and it has not opened since. >> Excellent. >> I resigned. They revoked my Slack. I closed it and never opened it again. >> That's amazing. Um >> there's something and and you know, no, I don't use Teams and uh or anything else. Yeah. [snorts] Um, we were still pretty old school. Uh, most of the techs that that I oversaw, we all worked out of a central office and then went to various parts of of city, state, you know, county, wherever. Um, and so we didn't feel the need to have a Slack channel at all. Uh, so we just didn't. Uh, we just had a text chain between all of us. If we if someone needed something, it's like, "Hey, I'm going to this site. Does anyone need anything there? Click send." we just texted each other in in one large group chat. >> Um, so that was nice. I never had to exit Slack because I never got into Slack in the first place. >> Yeah. Um, I see people saying there's probably a lot of dumb with uh ZFS builds. Absolutely. Probably more so than Seph. Um, Seph is a little bit more there's a little bit more strategy has to go into building Seph. Yeah, there should be more strategy to go into the ZFS. But I also I recently made a video about that of how to get the most out of your ZFS and some dos and don'ts and because I certainly consulted enough people that says I have 30 discs. I can make a 30 wide VDEV. >> Yeah. Um >> you can. But >> speaking of no guard rails. >> Yeah. Um, ZFS is great and and most people's implementation of ZFS from from Proxmox to Trunass to everyone else who utilizes it even abundu now they go hey you want to use ZFS we have this new thing you can create a VDEV and and off you go awesome um one of the biggest problems though with a lot of ZFS implementations is there are no guardrails and there's not like a guide for creating the best strategy for the hardware you have built into the tools that you're using. And so even if I go into trunass, which is ZFS from the core, um, and I go, hey, I'd like to create a new a new ZFS pool, it'll go, oh, I see you have a 32 disk enclosure. I'm just going to add all those to a Z2. That's its default. It doesn't it doesn't ask if you want to do three or four eight wide VDEVs. It just goes, "Oh, I see 32 discs. Cool. By default, I'm just going to recommend you add those to a Z2." Don't do that. [laughter] Hey, I see you have 13 different types of discs from SSDs to mechanical, ranging from two terabytes to 22 terabytes. I'm just going to default add those to one big pool. No, don't do that either. [snorts] [laughter] Like, so it's great that all of these software companies and and from NAS to OS to hypervisor to everything else is allowing us to use ZFS and and putting those those tools into place, but a little bit more guidance or intelligence and recommendations is kind of required. >> Right. Well, in understanding the performance you get out of CFS with multiple VDES versus single VDEV is what's lost on a lot of people. Yeah, they just don't realize all drives together means more performance. Not as they're all in one pool or one VDEV in that pool. So, the pool should be made up of several VDEVs. And you know, then there's there's the I only use Stripes team. They comment in all my videos that you shouldn't use no RAID Z, you should only use Stripe. I'm like great. But storage efficiency is a thing. I mean, there's nothing wrong with stripes. It's a storage efficiency thing that we have a problem with now. >> If I wanted to only use 50% of the storage that I bought, I'd have used Seph in the first place. Oh, wait. That's oneird. Sorry. Yeah. So, while we're on the NAS Sorry, I'm shooting I'm shooting shots at YTO because it's fun. >> Yeah, it's [laughter] fun. Speaking of spending someone else's money, [laughter] >> should we should you talk about my NAS and the mystery that is my NAS? >> Uh let's do that right after uh I read this segue to our sponsor. >> All right. >> Uh which I should probably pull the the the readup for uh because I forgot to pull that up earlier. So uh it's here. I opened it earlier. Where's it at? There it is. Cool. Uh today's episode of Talking Heads is brought to you by Meter. While me and Tom certainly enjoy building out our home labs and even our production servers, and I've spent nearly 20 years in professional IT, not every business has a Jeff or a Tom working for them. Managing your own network infrastructure without a Jeff or Tom, that can be a challenge. Dealing with different vendors for firewalls, switching, Wi-Fi, and when something goes wrong, it's all your fault anyway. That's where Meter comes in. Meter delivers an all-in-one networking stack that bundles everything you need into a single package, including high-speed wired and wireless networking, power delivery, firewall and routing, and even cellular, all in a single integrated solution that's built for performance and scalability. Meter handles everything from network design, procurement, installation, and will even negotiate with your local ISP to get you the best rates on internet connectivity. All of that shows up in a single cloud-based dashboard, giving you clear visibility into every layer of your network. You get the connectivity your business needs, all for a predictable monthly cost. Best of all, there's no upfront expenses. Meter ships the hardware you need today and will automatically upgrade your hardware as time goes on, ensuring your users and your business always have the tools and connectivity they need. Whether you're starting a new business, expanding to new locations, or simply modernizing an aging network, let me take care of the hassle for you. Visit meter.com/craftcomputing to book a demo today. Again, that's me.com/craftcomputing. And a huge thanks to Meter for sponsoring today's episode. >> Every business needs a Jeff for a Tom, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, and eventually the Jeffs and Toms retire and it's hard to replace us. So, >> use the offer code down below. [laughter] >> Jeff and Tom don't work for anyone anymore. >> No. No. We back to the unemployed status that we love. >> Yep. So, um I I you have a Q30, don't you? >> Uh Q30 Qap. >> Uh no, no, Q30. The 45 drives. You got a 30 or do you have a You have the Or is it the >> I have the AV15. Yeah, >> AV15. Okay. >> Yeah. So, I have the Q30 and from 45 tries had for years. Uh I think I got it circa late 2019, early 2020 >> and it worked good for years. >> What What the crap? Crap. Brett, you setting me up with a 15 drive. Tom gets a 30. What the hell? >> A lot of media. So [laughter] it it ran my business for a number of years. So there's some There are five years of usage on these drives. Yeah. Yeah. >> So because it's 2025, well 2026 now, but the problem started in 2025. This is where it gets weird. >> And >> in the way 45 Drives breaks out their rails is each grouping of five drives has its own power. Mhm. [clears throat] >> one a drive and we weren't really sure which one would fail, but we do know all five in that group would fail consistently. The same five. So, we kept thinking it was a drive, but we couldn't identify the drive because it would just eject five drives immediately from the pool, cause the HPA controller to lock up and you just force reboots. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. So, we goofed and goofed with it and finally I said, "Let's just move all the data off of this." uh because it was doing it got it was doing it once a month and it the frequency went to once a week. We said all right this is it was mostly a storage backup server but it was annoying when it did break. So yeah, you you can't just reboot it. You had to power cycle it, which you know, it's got IPMI, so it wasn't too hard to do, >> right? >> Where this gets weirder is I said, "All right, to find the drives, cuz it keeps ejecting all of them. Let's do mirrors." So we took all the drives and put them mirrors. That didn't go well at all. And we also in between tried another uh I got it right here. We tried another HBA because I actually talked to 45. They're like, "Oh, that HBA is going bad." >> Yeah. >> Okay. So we swapped one ex no change. And but when we put them in mirrors, a drive would fail. And it was interesting because it would take out its neighbors, but we knew which drive it was at that point. And we took that drive out and removed it. But then it got weirder because a couple others randomly failed under load. And these none of these were part of the original five because we had all the serial numbers mapped out. And we rearranged the drives. We took them all out and rearranged them across the pool just to put them in differently. >> Um, >> so we ended up taking out four drives and then it just started working like magic. We're like, cool. It worked and it went on for a week. We started loading all the data on it even though we left it in mirrors which there wasn't enough space but we got a lot of it on there and then it locked up again and we're like ah all right we didn't solve the problem but it just locked up. It didn't have an error message. It just decided >> it just stopped working. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Like I could SSH in but any if you did smart control on any drive it was like I ain't talking to you. And so just it just couldn't talk to any drive so it was just paused. But the boot drives work so I could command it. And when I tried rebooting, it didn't reboot. And I said, "Power it off." >> Got an idea. And I I happen to have like Jeff a lot of hardware laying around because we had some other servers. And because we're doing some testing with some servers, I happen to have an entire 16 more brand new drives. So, we took all the we took the drives out of the Q30. We stuck them in the thing I can't talk about for ND reasons, but I will do a video [laughter] on it when it's when ND is over. We filled it with all these five-year-old Seagate drives >> and then we took those drives and put them in the Q30. Now we've moved 60. Well, now I don't think we're up to 60 terabytes, but because it's been moving since yesterday at full 10 gig. So, whatever we're at from yesterday till today, it doesn't seem to have any problems anymore. The Seagate drives, which are the exos 14 terabyte, are in the system we're alpha testing. Yeah. >> Work fine. They're under full heavy load. No errors. the other drives that we put in there are under full heavy load and no errors. So, I don't know if we solved it or we stopped it from happening, but we can't. We It's going to take another week before I declare it because we're we just put we had a we have another server that um is the go-between that's allowing us to take two servers down. It has another um 100 terabytes of storage and we're reloading both of them with that. So, it's been kind of a fun parade of weird that we're having. >> That that is super interesting. Um, uh, I've had >> none of those drives, and we specifically chose the ones that were erroring out, the ones that told me there were problems with them. We stuck them in this other server. We can't do it. I also had um, two of them that had bad sectors. I stuck those in another server and I have been doing a right test for two weeks on them and they're just never they have not accumulated any more bad sectors. So, I don't know if those bad sectors are because it was having power failures and it just had a read spot. I I am I am stymied on this, but I know the new drives work in the Q30 with no error. Plus, those drives worked for almost 5 years with never having a problem. Well, I had a couple with bad sectors, but that's happens after 5 years. They didn't they didn't cause the thing to crap. They just said, "Hey, this drive has two bad sectors now, >> right?" >> Which it's like, >> which is kind of normal. That's what drives do. There there's usually unused sectors at the end of the drive, and if a sector dies, it'll go, "Okay, I'm going to start using this one now." And and it evens out your capacity. And SSDs do the same thing that um that's why a lot of drives that yeah that's why a lot of uh a lot of SSDs came out with like 480 GB capacities instead of 512. They were provisioning 15% of the drive or 10% of the drive uh as as basically failover space uh to to prevent you know bad sectors on DRAM from uh from failing. So >> yeah, >> it's now it's weird because I have found a couple forum posts where people had similar problems. And in my live stream last week when I was just going over this scenario of all the things we tried, someone told me something really interesting that it didn't happen to them until they went to True NAS 25, but if they would back to 24, it worked fine. So >> weird >> that and they also said they reach because they also had a 45 drive server and they reached out to 45 Drives who um they reloaded worked with them got them on Houston and it doesn't happen at all. >> So that is one of the things we I thought about going to I don't know what would be incompatible. These are standard LSI HBAS. These are the most common ones out there. They're what 45 puts in all the things. They're they're in all kinds of systems. I mean >> yeah it's the 9300 or whatever. Yeah. >> Yeah. Whatever model this is right here. This is the newer one. I have the older one. I took the new one out just because I didn't want to have any variations cuz it's got two HBA cards. Yeah. >> Um and I just figured it wasn't where the problem was. But it's been it's been an interesting challenge to do all this. I'm happy it's happening to me and not a customer. I've not had a customer I've ever had this level of problems with. [laughter] So, you know, of course with a customer, not that I would probably say this, but there's a part of me that goes it is 5 years old. The drives are 5 years old, right? >> Um and you got five years of usage out of them without problem. So >> yeah, >> that's a life. I I would probably say it's uh six to seven years is really when you say these drives are probably in a business condition. I mean, home lab, ride them out, especially right [laughter] now, man. We're we're stretching these things as far as we can in a home lab. >> Home lab, I've I've got three terabyte constellations I'm looking at at repurposing, even though I know those fail at a rate of like two a month. Um, but those are the only extra hard drives I have on hand. Uh, all of my hard drives are in use. Um, >> yeah. >> So, >> yeah, >> it it is such a puzzling issue because, uh, BIOS I I a few people have suggested kernel problems. Um, the the thing doesn't have a kernel crash here. I'm always able to log into it. It's always like HBA failing. Any of the errors are like HBA controller can't talk to these drives. It's a whole lot of ATA type because they're SATA drives. So you got a bunch of ATA failures and logs. >> So they're all those type of issues, which is just weird. Um, but and if it was a incompatibility between the Linux firmware and the LSI, why is it working so well with a bunch of new drives? Like the new drives are fine. >> Yeah, >> we haven't I mean, we're we're not done copying data. It's going to copy all night and into tomorrow because you got so much data to move. But they're not having a problem. Yeah. >> So that also adds to the puzzle. I had uh a a NAS issue that I was tracking down for probably the better part of eight months. And I would use the NAS like I said I I edit directly off of my NAS. All of my footage gets dumped on there and then I just edit over 10 or at the time 100 gig connection. Um, and uh, about once every four or five days I would just stop being able to read data. The OS was fine. So, Trunass was up and running and and operating. Um, but any data I couldn't read it. I couldn't write it. I couldn't map a drive. I could it would just similar thing. My HBA just flat out locked. And I would go and I would hard cycle power and I'd boot it back up and it'd run perfectly and no errors, no bad sectors, no no ZFS, you know, dropping anything. Just it would work. And then about three or four days later, it would just lock up again. And at one point I thought it was down to a memory issue with the board cuz I had a uh I had a super micro uh H11 uh first generation Epic board in there. Um, and I think one of the dims on that board died, but then I pulled the dim and replaced it and the server worked for like a month, but then started having the same issue without the memory problem. Uh, so the memory might have been contributing to it, but it wasn't like the smoking gun. Um, I replaced the HBA and that didn't fix it. Uh, I replaced the power supply and that didn't fix it. I replaced the cables from the HBA to the back planes. That didn't fix it. Uh I looked for individual drive errors. Uh I even went out and bought a couple of extra drives and tried just like randomly swapping a drive and revering and the rever went perfectly. And then 3 days later it would lock up. It's like and in the end I pulled the drives. I put them in a new server. The drives are working fine. The HBA is working fine. The server is working fine. New Tunas install. Everything's great. never figured it out what it was. But for like eight months, it was that similar thing where you're just tracing one issue from a next to a next to the next. And maybe my maybe one of my DIMs did fail and maybe my HBA did fail and maybe I fixed that and that's why it's working now. But the problem is I couldn't definitively say this was the problem. I never found it. And those are the worst. I bought a it was for backups so it wasn't tragically bad but it was tragically annoying. Another trun server and I also tried uh well I should say I I'll get to where it happened to it later. I bought a server from um Unix surplus and I bought several from them so I don't blame them at all this problem. Uh, I had it 6 months and then all of a sudden it decided it was going to reboot at complete random and this thing is in um a fully isolated proper UPS. Everything's set up properly. This is in, you know, my production rack um at my office. I'm like, "Oh, that's odd. Why does it why does it have an uptime of like, you know, couple hours and why did some of these uh backup jobs fail that were running to it?" I'm like, "Oh, okay." Because it rebooted. Yeah, that was weird. >> Couldn't find anything wrong with it. I ran mem tests and all the usual stuff. Couldn't find any heat problems. Strugged my shoulders and about uh two months later did it again. It continued to do that from the time I bought it um until I gave it to Jay from Learn Linux TV because I said I told him all about it. I said, "You can have this thing." Yeah. >> I I got my three years out of it. Uh I said it about roughly and not exactly, it's not a science because I had the date I was logging. It's not consistent like it's not a timer that's counting down, but about every two months it reboots. >> Yeah. and he loaded I think uh Debian on it and or Proxbox one of those two we same thing. Yeah. Uh it did the same thing to him after a while but it took him three months and so >> but we never figured out we can't figure out what's wrong with that server because it just reboots every server. I don't know what he does. He may still have it. I don't know. Yeah, it was it had a decent amount of storage on it. That's why I bought it. It was a good sale but man it was like >> we never could put it a super micro box. It was a standard one. It wasn't unusual that didn't have any weirdness to it. >> Yeah. And again, speaking of like generic, you know, utility machines, Super Micro, to their credit, usually builds like just to spec machines. They're not they're not jamming IDRA down your throat or ISO or anything like that. >> And we we were playing with it trying to overheat it. We ran uh because we had I'd reloaded a couple times just trying different things because we can never simulate it. We ran stress on it and some other tools. We were just putting it all maxed out to the CPUs were using max wattage and the fans were crying and I'm like just leave it. I want it to die. And [laughter] we just left it. Come in hours later. Um I'm like the the server room's getting warm. This thing's screaming and I'm like it's still not dead. It just won't die. I don't know. And then it just reboots a couple months later it's like ah it's it drove me nuts. I hate hardware problems like that. Those intermittent problems are the most >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> mind sucking, soul degrading. Yeah. Things that you can ever deal with. >> Maybe the reset button was making random content. I don't think it had I don't remember it having a reset button, but that is an interesting idea. Yeah. Like static electricity builds up on the reset button. I don't know. We're We're really reaching now. [laughter] It's all I know. >> Spooky ghosts in the server room. Yeah. >> The ghost. The ghost in the server. That's what we're dealing with here. It's um I don't know. >> Uh a couple more super chats. Uh I didn't get to this one earlier. The PC archive sends over $5. Has anyone ever created a ZFS pool out of a floppy discs? Um I think I have seen that before. >> I know USB drives, but floppy discs, I don't know. >> I I know I've seen USB. I thought I had seen one where a guy did like eight USB floppy drives and did a ZFS pool on on floppy. Um, Circuit Rewind and I were looking at doing the most cursed ZFS video ever. We were looking at doing a ZFS with these >> Hitachi micro drives, 1.8 in compact flash hard drives. Um, he actually bought a bunch of hardware for it and uh we realized uh these drives have a problem. um they're ATA uh drives because compact flash is just ATA standard. Um however, ATA has this weird thing called slave and master. And one drive takes channel A and one drive takes channel B, right? These don't have the ability to run on channel B. >> So you need one controller per drive. [snorts] You can't put two drives on the same controller. Um, and so he bought he bought four ATA controllers and eight of these discs and all the cables and everything to make them work and then we realized we cannot force these to go on the slave channel. >> Ah, so we were going to do a video together and then it just kind of fell by the wayside. Um, maybe we'll do one anyway just with the four discs or we'll buy some bifurcation slots and we'll figure out how to do eight drives on a system. Um, but uh, yeah, we were looking at doing like the most cursed ZFS setup ever. Yeah, I I got to do a follow-up to my ZFS torture test video, but one of the things I want to point out is all the rebooting of my main NAS, the one that we had all the drives in is the 45 drives. Constantly rebooting it, locking up the drives. Definitely had to do a lot of scrubs to, you know, fixing errors. I lost zero data. I mean, some backup jobs failed when it rebooted while it was backing up, but I did not suffer a bunch of corrupted files. All the media transferred off. that's why we're able to transfer it back. The problems just didn't occur. It was kind of amazing to me um >> that ZFS I mean I was just wickedly rebooting this thing. I know any of it was it was a third copy of the data. That's mostly what lives here. Yeah. Um so it's like if it does break it'll just be annoying to reload it all. So which is what we're doing now anyways. But it we never lost data. That's that's the part that amazes me is just how often that thing was constantly hammered on and rebooted that we did not lose anything. And and speaking of that, like the NAS server that I had that was constantly crashing on me, um those drives are still in my current NAS server and in have in fact endured, I think, four motherboards and multiple reinstalls of of Trunass and multiple crashes and multiple HBA failures and and bad memory. I've not lost a single bit of data. Uh and it's all video data, so it's very obvious when something drops. uh cuz the video doesn't play anymore. Um uh because it's all meg uh but yeah, all the video that I go back and scrub through 140 terabytes worth of back data all works fine. >> Yeah. I think people don't realize how much of the movie industry is the more I I do a lot of consulting in that specific sector. Yeah. >> And how much of it runs on truness. >> Yeah. >> And it's because and I'm trying to remember the name of the product. It's it's actually one I think Lion has talked about it, but there's some media storage box that's popular in a movie industry. >> I don't know what it runs underneath, but most of these do actually run ZFS underneath, but >> [clears throat] >> um I had a client that does commercials for very large publicly traded companies and they were livid um cuz the data loss what they do when they shoot a video. Uh it's kind of interesting like the whole process as I've learned. You know, you run a set. Some of this was filmed in a desert for a commercial. A lot of this was done practical, so it's not a bunch of CGI stuff, but they hire actors [clears throat] and you know, people like Ryan Reynolds come out and talk to a camera. They will happily do it for a fee, but if you lose the video, they will do it for the same fee again. They don't do they don't just come out and do it again, right? So, like they uh part of what they do is they build uh they built this whole RV that they get the cameras, load the data into the RV, and then the RV drives back uh across the country is when you're moving that much data. the fastest way to safest way to get there. >> Sneaker net's the easiest thing you can do. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of cool. Um like the whole process and how it all works, but apparently, you know, you may release a commercial for something, but then later they're like, "Hey, let's go ahead. We have like five cuts of this and then we'll make a variation of the commercial cuz we run it." And they went to go pick that data. And like you said, even though they're doing it all in, you know, this is all raw, there was a lot of corrupted data. A whole lot of it. >> Yeah. and they pay dearly and were always told to stay away from the open- source stuff because it's just home labers and stuff like that. But they have switch switched um yeah cuz they the company said yeah something just happened it wasn't it wasn't validating the data the company was kind of very shrug your shoulders of it and you're like what do we do we can't recover it there's no there's no good data here to recover so yeah that that commercial shoot you did that cost several hundred thousand in fees to pay people you just have to do it again. >> Yeah. >> Uh so I just opened my second beer. Um, and this one I'm pretty sure I got from uh one of my Patreon uh uh backers, uh, Scotty Fit. Uh, I've been digging back to the back of my fridge because I've been storing beers for like three, four, five years. Uh, and this one I'm almost guarantee that he sent me because I opened one that al he also sent me a couple days ago. This is a 2021 Transient Artisan ALS. So, up near you. Um they're out of Michigan. This is the 2021 Juny double barrel. Uh and Imperial rice stout with violet sky cocoa nibs and salted caramel aged in Henry McKenna 10-year bourbon barrels and Bliss bourbon maple syrup barrels. 13%. Oo, that's [laughter] >> it's up there. Yeah. So, that's what I opened. >> How long you had that one, you said? >> Uh, I think I got it in 2021. So, it's been in my fridge 5 years. >> But how long will be stay in the fridge? >> Indefinitely. >> Okay. I thought it was like >> different beer ages at different rates. And in fact, some beers you do want to age, other beers you don't want to age. Uh, IPAs typically you want to drink fresh or as fresh as possible. Um, dark beers, stouts, and porters, they typically age and mature very, very well. Um, >> uh, however, you can also overage things. Uh, and kind of like the way lithium batteries are a controlled chemical reaction that we have a very good understanding of, beer, aging is a not necessarily controlled chemical reaction. Uh, and so sometimes you get really good results, other times they go nuclear and explode on you. and and either thing is possible. Um, ideally, you would like to age darker beers at about 50° uh, Fahrenheit. So, if you have like a cellar or a a basement or a dark corner of your garage that never sees sunlight, put some beers in a box and store them in there and they'll be fine. Uh, in your fridge, it's a little cold, the reaction isn't as fast. Uh, but it's also more of a guarantee that you're going to get a good product in the end. But yeah, this one I've been holding on to for a while and uh figured I should start going through some of my old stock. So 2021 Juny, thank you Scotty. Uh Jay, not a professional, sends over $2. Cheers to meter for sponsoring the show 100%. Thank you, Meter. And thank you, Jay. Uh Vince sends over five bucks. Thank you. Uh here's your sponsorship from Yard. We do networking and networking accessories. [laughter] Uh, PC Archive sends over another $5. Thank you. Uh, I work at a medical device factory as a laborer. I had to show our IT people how to connect Android phones to their Cisco APs. Uh, was proud and concerned. Yeah. Yeah, that happens. Uh, and Jay sends over another $2. Uh, Craft is getting ready for crabs with that 13%. Maybe crabs happens in the afterparty. We'll see. Um, you made me think of something and people may be interested in this. Uh, if you look up silver symbol sodium ion puncture test, I was impressed with the level of explosive nature of the sodium batteries that a lot of people have stated on YouTube are extra safe. Yeah. >> Um, >> wow. like it is he he um he uh what kind of it looks like an anchor I think it's it's one of the brand it's a brand name one and he says I'm not holding the company the company never makes these claims but he goes lots of YouTubers do though that these are safe batteries um he sets off a chain reaction that makes you go wow quite a few times like you just keep going oh it's over oh no another one and it it turn it's like a great fireworks display it's like it goes on for about 8 minutes of explosions one after another after another. Like lithium runaway is wild, but uh I've seen plenty of it, but the sodium batteries, which I don't know why I've just I've seen like videos pop up cuz I was looking at one for my camper. Yeah. And everyone's like, "Oh, they're super safe. They don't do this." Blah blah blah blah blah. And I'm like, I don't know. The problem, >> the problem with the reason batteries work >> is battery metals, alkalion metals, alkaline metals are highly reactive. Uh they exist in a certain family called alkali metals which includes sodium uh lithium etc. Um they are so reactive they react to moisture in the air. Uh and that is this the case for any alkaline metal. Uh there's a reason old batteries are called alkaline batteries. It was alkaline chemistry. Newer chemistry is sodium or lithium. >> It's still an alkaline metal. It is still reactive. It is still potentially explosive in certain circumstances. And it's one of those things that's harder to see that when you charge batteries and you know we we used to have so much fun back in my retail store days. We used to like popping batteries. Now if the batteries and these old laptops that we had to get rid of if the batteries were not charged or couldn't hold a charge. It wasn't very exciting. But when they would hold 100% charge it was it was joyous day at the at the back of the office in the alley where the batteries were part of the entertainment for the staff. um when you punch a who can punch a hole and run. No, this isn't wise, but it seemed to make the staff happy. So, I let them do it once in a while. Um you know, they would skip the recycling and well, have fun with it. But what you can't see, and this is the concept I've often explained to people, if I took a rubber band and wound it up and I've put some energy into it, you can see that rubber band. You know, when I let it go, it's going to spin. You can see it. That same thing is actually happening when you put power into batteries. you are bringing all that energy, that energy you bring out to power your devices, it's stored in there and that potential, you're just releasing all that potential at once when you puncture them. That's that's really what you're doing. That same energy that could power your devices for hours or days is now being released simultaneously. You're taking so many watt hours and releasing it right now. All of it, right? And it's epic. >> Yeah. I mean, there there's uh always been comparisons of like a Snickers bar has more potential energy than uh a,000 lb bomb. The difference is how quickly you can deliver that energy >> and and there's a lot of truth to that. Um and or how much energy you can store at a time and then how quickly you can release it. And so, yeah, a rubber band, >> it can store some energy, not a lot of energy relatively, >> but it can let it all go kind of instantaneously. >> Um, versus a candy bar. You have to eat a candy bar and then chemically digest it to be able to absorb the energy and slowly power your cells. And, you know, Yeah. It's it's a thousand calories. Um, but it's a thousand calories delivered over 12 hours. >> Yeah. And um one of the things I seen someone say sodium sodium ion batteries are great. They have downsides but they also have many upsides. Somebody talked about he says I'm not blaming the batteries and he goes and he pointed out he goes the manufacturer does not make the claims that many YouTubers make and sodium ion batteries I believe one of the advantages he talked about was they work better in colder conditions. So he he says this is not a dig on them because this same sudden release of power happens um explosively with lithium ion the same as it does with sodium ion. So, there's all the things um back and forth. It's just cool to see someone just puncture it and let it rip. [laughter] It was just I I was last night and I'm like I'm smiling. I There's something about the destruction of things occasionally like you're like oo I wonder what would happen if I don't want to break mine. [laughter] But but then again, me and you do that because like when I do a ZFS torture test, people are afraid to forcibly reboot a ZFS server. >> Yeah. >> They might be scared to just yank a drive out or whatever. Um, you know, those are things that people are less used to. I actually remember, um, uh, one of the girls that, uh, she was a dispatcher, um, when I worked at CNWR. You know, she'd not put her hands on a lot of tech. She's some technical background, but her her job didn't really do that. I had her load up a radar and remove some drives live. And she thought it was so cool. She goes, "You could just like take these out." And I was like, "Yeah, you could just grab one." And we need to swap these cuz a couple are bad. And she cuz she went with us somewhere. And she's like, "Oh." She was so excited. It's not that scary to touch this stuff. It's just it's expensive. Don't drop it. But >> Right. Exactly. Um, one of my favorite things that I I've demoed a couple of times is on Proxmox and and setting up a small Seph cluster uh with the uh the AMD Epic 45 micro cloud that I got a demo out a couple of months ago. um was setting up a SEC cluster and then not even pulling a drive, not pulling a network card or anything else, pulling a whole freaking live node out of the server, just ripping a motherboard from its chassis. Uh and and going, "Hey, look, all the VMs automatically migrated over here and they're back up and running 30 seconds later." [laughter] That's one of the coolest things to me. Uh, Elmo sends over $42 and one penny. Uh, and hold on. Gotta warm up for this one. I am just paying money to have Jeff read my mess up comment on the OpenVro video. Open Viral product proudly produced by Craft Computing Logistics LLC or Craft Logistics LC, the production company producing products for Craft Computing Video Productions. [laughter] Do we we got two more to read and then we do do we go into a rant? >> Uh we might go into a rant. I think a rant is is warranted here. Um >> you read those. I'm going to get a drink. Excellent. I'll need a drink for this rant you're about to have. >> Okay. Excellent. >> My beer's empty, too. So I'll be right back. >> That's fun. Uh PC Archive sends over $5. Uh thank you again. Uh IFly RC Helis. We use 12 cell 5 amp lipos. Uh and they drain to 3.7 volts in 3 minutes. Also lipos didn't explode. Uh, they just spew fire. 18650s are the scariest. Yeah, 18650s are freaking terrifying. Um, I had a friend uh uh anyone who has friends who vape, you've seen an 18650 go off in their pocket once. Like, everyone that I know has a story. Uh, I did have a friend who uh literally self- emilated his pants at one point uh with a vape battery. Um, that's always great. And then green. Hello, green sends over $5. Uh, exhausted from 3:00 am escape aid. Uh, but satisfied. Oh, yeah. You were you were doing stuff late last night. Uh, but satisfied finally passing through four Quadro uh RTX 4000s to VMs and verifying the USBC display alt ports are fully functional. Freaking excellent. Um, yeah. Uh, I do have some more cloud gaming content coming. um including some we have BC250 at home content coming because I happen to have a microcloud and a bunch of lowprofile GPUs. So we might be seeing some uh some gaming on the microcloud before too long. That could be fun. Ah this beer is so good. Uh, rye barrel and maple syrup. You You had me at rye barrel and then you added maple syrup to it. Heck yes. I'm a fan. That is way too incredibly smooth. I wish Scotty was in the chat right now so I could give him even more thanks. But uh, wow, that one's good. >> [snorts] >> Uh if you didn't catch it earlier, uh I did publish a new video uh just a couple hours ago. Uh Open Viral is getting very close to launching. Uh and uh things have been going very very well. Like all of my all of our testing and validation has gone perfectly. Uh like I said, the last component that we were that we're waiting on is the IO plates front and rear for the main enclosures here. Um but uh yeah, firmware is working. All the all the components are working. The 3D printing is going gang busters. I've got three 3D printers that are running 24/7 out in my garage that are printing all of my cases. Uh including I am so proud of this shell. Uh I fully 3D designed this shell with 3D printing in mind and we're printing it with uh glass fill PETG. So it's essentially fiberglass and PETG. Um, and it is rigid and strong and perfectly dimensionally accurate. I I am so thrilled with this part. And then it all goes together in a nice neat little package like that with a translucent lid so the LED can shine through while uh while the thing is operating. Uh, I've got a baffle inside of there that keeps the heat generating components away from the thermister that's inside of there. Um, like this is cool. I'm actually most proud of this. [laughter] Like I put more work into this, I think, than I've put into this. Um, >> I love 3D printing. It's just it's still got a magical like I know how it works, but there's still this magic to it that's really cool. >> Yeah. Um, >> like it went from imagination, could we do this to people doing it, >> right? I I'm I'm about 2/ird of the way through printing all of the cases that I need, which mind you is 3600 individual pieces plus 10,400 screws that have to go into this whole assembly that I'm trying to to ship out. Uh so none of it's trivial, but there is a magic sense of like I designed this thing and now I'm printing them out 40 to 60 units at a time on a printer that I spent $800 on out in my garage. like I am my own manufacturing facility. It's It's so much fun. [cough and clears throat] >> Yeah. It It's crazy because the first time I heard the term 3D printing was 2001. >> Yeah. >> Uh there was a contractor we worked with. Um we done some business with him, but I was in corporate and in the transportation world. I was still working tech. But the tech became fascinating because they were building these vehicles that had like vehicles not right word. They were trailers essentially and they would bring them out to places so they could look at and custom fabricate these parts. And I was always thinking your standard reductive machining like we have a block and we reduce it to the part we need by milling out the parts. But then I realized it was additive and I'm like oh you know and like yeah it's kind of like 3D printing I think as they said it was the term they use is like you know additive fill building of uh parts. So it was kind of yeah that it had a very like they were making it very technical but then someone says yeah like 3D printing you know it's like >> yeah [laughter] >> um but yeah no mostly this whole process has been really really fun. Uh there's been a couple hiccups uh as as I told Tom before uh a couple of vendors have have been kind of difficult to work with. Um, particularly with the screws. I I got >> someone screwed up. >> I got upset earlier this week. Um, uh, so ordering 20 screws on Amazon, easy. You get on Amazon, you spend eight bucks, you get 20 screws, done, right? You buy them in whatever spec you want. Um, ordering 10,000 screws is a little bit different because you have to go to either a wholesaler's website or an original manufacturer's website and you dig through their treasure trove of their catalog of [snorts] basically like a pick list of I need this screw head on this screw body with this thread pitch with this thread diameter with this uh bit type uh with this finish in this material and do we make that and do we have it in stock right now? And uh so I was after something very specific. So for uh I want I like torque screws way better than Phillips, especially for smaller machine screws because your bits last a lot longer because there's more surface contact with your bit and so you strip out your bits less often. Uh and when you're screwing in 10,000 of something that does matter. Um, so for the main shells, for the main body, uh, we managed to find some T7 Torx bits in an M2.5 at 5mm with a button head that look freaking fantastic on the front of this device. It looks great. They function well. I like them. We were looking for some counter sunk uh, so bits with a cone shape taper to them so they will actually sit flush with the top of a product. uh Torx bits and uh found one vendor who had some in stock and so I in the length that we needed which is also 16 mm. So an M2 16 mm long screw with a counter sunk Torx bit. Uh very specific. Uh found a vendor. They had them available in quantities of 5,000. Well, we needed 4,800 screws cuz 1,200 times uh time 4. So, four screws per head is is 4,800. I needed a box of 5,000. So, I ordered a box of 5,000. >> Uh, I placed the order, paid for it, done. Cool. Um, got a phone call about 30 minutes later and, uh, this guy answers the phone and he says, "Hey, uh, you just placed an order. Uh, unfortunately those screws are out of stock and they won't be in stock for another six weeks." And I went, "Well, that doesn't meet my timeline. Uh, I have to have these in stock within the next two weeks because that's when we're shipping." And uh so he goes, "Well, we can do everything the same, but we can swap it out for a Phillips zero bit instead of a a T5 if you're okay with that." And I went, I'm not necessarily happy of of sacrificing that. Let me look at some other vendors first. I'll let you know within an hour. And so I went on on a search. I think the most I found in Sock was about a thousand of the bits that I wanted. Uh and so I I emailed the guy back and I said, "Tell you what, you win." Uh, and he goes, "We have them in stock at the same price. Uh, we'll we'll simply transfer your order over to another order. We'll ship you those items. Same price. Done." I said, "Okay, we'll go and do the Phillips bits. No problem." Um, I get an order confirmation and the order confirmation says quantity 4500. Now, normally, not a big deal, right? Like, like for these screws, I only needed 5,600 of them. I bought 10,000 because that was the bulk amount that I, you know, you either buy 2500 or you buy 10,000. So, it's like, okay, >> so if anyone needs an extra 4,400 screws, I have 4,400 extra T7 M2.55mm screws. Let me know. I'll sell them to you cheap. Um, for this one, we were cutting in within 200 of their bulk order. However, for this other set of screws, for the Phillips heads, they only sold them sold them in quantities of 1500. So, they sold me three boxes of 1500 for 4500. I'm now 300 screws short. So, I sent an email. I said, "Hey, Ryan, I just saw the order verification come through with Phillips heads. I do have one problem, and that's the quantity. I needed 4,800 screws for this project and bought a 5,000 pack of the Torx heads. The Phillips heads only seem to come in a 4500 count. Any chance we can get get this resolved? Hey, you presented me with a solution which was we sell these screws and a Phillips head at the same price. However, that was not accurate. Please rectify the situation. Fully on you. This is your problem. Please deal with it. Right. Yeah. Okay. Uh he emailed back. Hey Jeff, for this one we would only be able to sell you a carton of 1500. Uh but we could get an order in for you for 1500 at the bulk pricing of five per carton uh of $62 plus shipping. Would that work best for you? Um no. Because I was told you would sell them at the same price, which by the way, this was already like a $270 order. Like screws are not cheap when you buy them 5,000 at a time. 10,000 at a time. I spent >> It adds up. >> I spent $800 on screws a week and a half ago. Okay. >> Um screws are not cheap. Um and and here's someone who says, "We screwed up. We didn't have your item in stock. We claimed that they were available for the same price and the same quantity. Turns out that's not true. And now we're going to charge you an extra $62 on top of the 270 you already paid us." And I went, "That's not okay." like under what circumstance is that okay? This is not my fault as a customer at all. Uh so I emailed him back and I said, "You put me in a bit of a spot. You stated on the phone you had Philips heads in price for the same price as Torx. I uh that I ordered, but you didn't mention the quantity difference. Had I known that the order wouldn't fulfill my needs, I would have found an alternative. Now, I either return the screws to you while paying for return shipping, or spend an extra $60 with you to get what I didn't want in the first place, which is not the right screw with not the right head type. So, if there's anything you can do to help out, I'd appreciate it. Again, putting this fully back in his court as fully his fault. Good morning, Jeff. Unfortunately, this part does not come in a carton of 1500 pieces, and I do not have a partial box of 500 to send out. If you would like to return the full order, we can get that going. You would pay the the shipping back to us, but we would wave the restock fee for you. Oh, how freaking generous of you. Please let me know what you would like to do and we get that process started. This wasn't my fault [laughter] >> from the like I'm giving this dude every opportunity to make this right. And look, I understand I'm not a big purchaser. I bought one box of screws from you. I I am a rounding error in your hourly calculations, let alone your daily. I get where I'm sitting at. However, on the flip side, to make this right with a potential customer who's trying to start up a small business, I'm also a rounding error to make this right today. >> Yeah, this is not it's not that much cost. Just fix it. >> Just fix it. Just ship me 500 screws or a box of 1500 so you don't have to spend time counting or whatever else. Just ship me a box of screws that I already ordered and paid shipping for. >> Screws. I'm just throw that out there, >> right? Yeah. Just ship me a box of 1500 screws and call it a day because at the end of the day, I'm a rounding error. But at the end of the day, I'm also a customer and potentially willing to spend I don't know where open viral is going to go. We sold 700 units. There might be an organization two months from now that says we'll buy 10,000. There might be. In which case, that's 40,000 screws. [laughter] Suddenly, I'm not a small customer anymore. But this dude takes the the stance of, "Hey, screw you. We're not going to lose one single penny on you." Unfortunately, we're getting down to the deadline. I don't want to deal with another vendor. So, I responded, "Stellar customer service here. I know this is not directly your fault. I'm not even accusing the guy of being the one at fault. Uh, but it's frustrating on my end. I placed an order for screws, was told you had those screws out of stock, but could be replaced by another product at the same price. But it's not the same price because it's 500 fewer screws, which screws me because I need the full quantity. So again, I either get to pay return shipping for your mistake or spend $60 for your mistake. [snorts] Hey Ryan, anytime you can make this better. Anytime at all. Won't cost you a freaking penny. [laughter] Guess who is not going to be buying screws from this company next time around? >> Uh, they screwed around too much to put on this. [laughter] I'm not quite to the name and shame point because again >> it's a screw vendor, but I did want to rant a little bit about like shipping a product is hard like and you don't know until you get into it about all the little things that need done. Um I still have I I say the IO shields are the last thing that I have to get in. Uh that's not entirely true. I placed an order for uh 1,200 6P6C data cables and I had to find one that was Ro and CEC certified which was double the price of any typical vendor like Amazon or Monoprice or anyone else because I had to have those certifications so I could ship my product to the EU which I only sold I think 12 units to the EU but I have to sell them certified cables. Uh so everyone gets certified cables now at double the price. Um, that was freaking $2,200 in cables. Um, I haven't ordered boxes yet. I have to ship my things in retail packaging. I haven't ordered retail packaging yet. That's going to be another three grand. >> Like, just right off the top. >> That it's all that little stuff that adds up. I mean, >> yeah. Uh, >> never mind you that I spent $17,000 in Trump's tariffs getting my product in the States. >> Oh, you should you should have just done American manufacturing. Guess what? It would have been $30,000 more to do American manufacturing because we don't have the facilities here to do what I needed. >> Yeah, it's it's also um I like and I was I ordered some stuff from Ubiquiti. Um, despite those who call me a Ubiquity show all day, uh, I actually buy parts from them and I bought some stuff from them. And, uh, I like that they include the tariff right on there. Just let you know, just a reminder. >> Yeah. By the way, >> fee. >> Yeah. By the way, separate out. This is separate than the sales tax. It's the tariff fee that you're paying. We're not charging you more for this. >> Yep. >> Complain to that other guy. >> Yep. Um, for these right here. Okay. uh to get these two panels, 700 of each, manufactured locally or even in the US. Like I I looked all around. I looked at some manufacturers in in California, one in Arizona, a couple in Oregon. I think the cheapest price that I got for 700 of each was $3,200. Uh and most of them couldn't even finish parts that are this small. Um, I I reached out to Sen Cut Send, which is actually where these validation samples are from. Um, Senut Send doesn't have a machine that will debur these these parts. They don't offer that service on parts this small. Um, so I would spend $3,200 cutting out these parts. Or I could order from an overseas manufacturer with a laser cutter that can cut 5052 aluminum for me. Um, that price was $900 plus $200 for shipping. I went, "Easy deal." Oh, and by the way, those are deburred and brush finished. Easy deal, right? Oh, never mind. There's a $1,000 tariff on that. I paid 110% tariffs on this. So, my total price after shipping is like $2,300 when it should have been $1,100. But Jeff, just do American. American was three times the cost in the first place. I tried. I wanted to. Trust me, if anyone wants to do American, it's me. I love manufacturing. I I will absolutely go American manufacturing when they can compete. But they can't compete. And that's the point. >> Yeah. It's And especially when you get into the electronic side, it doesn't exist. >> It doesn't exist. Yeah. manufacturing boards. I looked into American manufacturing. Um I I >> multiple times. Um number one, the silicon, so the RP2040, the the Ethernet controller, the windbond memory chip, the the the little uh DC converter that we have on the board, all that's made overseas, so I'm going to pay tariffs on importing those parts anyway. >> Yep. Um, plus no one makes PCBs in the states. Every manufacturer that I reached out to said, "We we farm out the PCB manufacturing and we do the assembly in the States." So, either I pay for the manufacturing and the assembly all in one shop, which is way cheaper. >> Yeah. >> And then pay for the tariff on the whole unit as it ships out, or I pay tariffs on each individual component because none of this is manufactured in the States. And I and then I pay the tariff on the PCV coming in. And then I pay American wages to manufacture the thing. [snorts] So much fun. All the joys of manufacturing. >> And the end result is I'm down $17,000 this last year. Uh, but Jeff, sell it for less money. Isn't that what the people will say? I will let you in on a on a secret, Tom. Um, when this is all said and done, this whole endeavor, Open Vyro, manufacturing, developing the product, paying a developer, paying a programmer, uh, doing all the design work inhouse. So figuring out shape, size, dimensions, uh designing all of these parts myself, 100% in house, designing this case 100% in house. Um, out of this whole endeavor, fully self-funded, I think I'm going to make about $6,000 on $100,000 in revenue. I think I'm making 6%. >> It's tight. Yep. That's where I'm into it. >> I made 6% on a year's worth of work. >> That's part of the fun of the endeavor. >> It's the fun of the endeavor. I love that this product I love this Yeah. I love that this product exists now. >> If we get another order, the the profit margin goes up because I'm no longer paying developer costs on it. It's a it's a known quantity now. Um I no longer have to find vendors. I no longer have to design parts. Like, I can just reorder parts and then assemble them and ship. And so, from now on, yeah, things are cheaper. But the problem is I'm only making 6% and I missed my original target of $99 by 50%. Because of tariffs, because the tariffs were implemented and then I went, well, I need to account for that. I'm going to raise my price 50% from $99 to $149. And in fact, the price today, I think, is $170 listed on crowd supply. Um, simply because costs have gone up since then. So, we've raised our prices 70% also, I can make 6% profit. Who else what other industries do you think is doing that right now? Are your groceries getting cheaper? Is your gas getting cheaper? Is your insurance getting cheaper? Is your medical care getting cheaper? Are your cars getting cheaper? Is your storage or your memory getting cheaper? No. [laughter] >> Well, storage and memory doesn't even equate on the same scale, >> right? >> Uh should we catch up on a couple super chats? >> Yes, let's catch up on some super chats and then let's let's do some microsop ranting because >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's some good rants in here, too. >> Yeah. Uh Green sends over another $5. Thank you very much. Always appreciated. uh craft computing members buying and and building BC250s only to uh contract crabs shortly thereafter. [laughter] >> I like it. I like it. I wanted you to read that one I seen earlier. >> That's hilarious. [laughter] H uh Taylor sent over $5. Thank you very much, Taylor. Much appreciated. Uh which do you think will be worse, the '08 housing market crash or the AI bubble? The AI bubble. AI bubble to a factor of five. >> I I think it won't be and and for a different reason. The the banks got bailed out, the people got sold out, and people lost their houses. >> Yeah, >> the AI is going to be really interesting because it showed us what's capable, but not what it costs. Right now, it's all subsidized. We don't know what it costs. >> Yeah, >> it would be a weird interesting problem because the LMS will suddenly stop getting updated, but there's some very good open download. I'm not open source is not the right return, but free download self-hostable LLM systems that get updated, that updating will come to a halt because no one has the money to pay for it if the bubble pops. Yeah. >> No one has the power uh no one can pay the power bill to actually run these servers at what they actually cost. It's how what did they lose? Something like seven and a half billion last year. Um, yeah, like if you don't have seven and a half billion to run the data centers, it just basically no one gets them updated anymore. And those are very specialized. It's not like they're the Bitcoin world of a bunch of GPU farms, right? And the people holding the bag are people, you know, awful human beings like Larry Ellison is completely leveraged in this. And I would be thrilled if he suddenly didn't have money. It would it would bring me a level of joy if Oracle were to go away. >> The the overall economy is 5x is 5x worse than the dot or in fact the.com bomb uh that they're predicting between 10 and 12x uh uh leveraged assets are are out there. Um, but I you bring up an interesting point and that is I don't think the AI crash is going to cost the average person their home from from subprime mortgages, >> right? >> Um, and I think that's a great point to bring up is we're in the same situation as the US global economy, but this one's going to hit the 1%. They're the ones leveraging because look at open AI is a private company. It's if they disappeared today, >> zero dollars I have invested. I am not the among the privy private people investing in OpenAI. Yeah, that's what makes it kind of different. Um Larry Ellison has made a lot of promises through Oracle by leveraging assets of Oracle. >> I mean there's people invest in Oracle because they are publicly traded, but h it's not what makes up the majority of the middle class wealth. We we our our wealth of the average human probably the average people watching this. Maybe we have some above average people. If you want to throw money at us, go ahead. Let us know. Let us know what you if you want to if you want to show off your wealth. Me and Jeff are happy to you know be be your uh pokey. >> If you want to be a distinguished individual and prove your clout then you know the super chats are open. I'm just >> Yeah. I mean you can send 10020 grand or you know you could solve these uh problems. >> What do you want to see us do on the channel? I will dance monkey dance. Okay. >> Yeah. There [laughter] there is dance. We will dance. We're not good at it, but we will do it. There's a price has been established. But uh so I I think it's interesting because I the hardware will kind of just become sitting idle. Could you buy it pennies on a dollar? Sure. But can you power it? >> You can't do anything with it. >> Yeah, it's so specialized. You know, it is it's just going to be a bigger challenge just scoping out a little bit here. >> We talked about buying you servers earlier in the show here. What does that look like in the future when servers are first lots of licensing? Second, what if they're liquid cooled? I mean, the minimum to tie the liquid cooling. There's a lot of weird rigging you got to do to try to make that work in your home lab. Oh, yeah. And it's a lot of unique power connectors. All this runs on 208. Not that that's too hard to solve, but >> it's not like just plug in hardware like it was. So, it leaves an really interesting gap in the market. Um, but at least I think we're going to uh lean into self-hosted LMS. Many people probably listening to the show right now are leaning into it. But the downside is none of us can train those larger models. They're wildly expensive to train. Um, and I know there's some people with enough enough hardware at their house to do it, but most of us do not have it. And the maj, they got to 2025 or 2026 and they were never trained again because no one could afford to train them. Yeah, I [snorts] I think that's a great point. Um, you know, I've talked multiple times about just the server hardware getting obscene as far as power requirements and cooling requirements goes. Um, a single B300 GPU, a single B300 is 1,400 watts, not including your cooling capacity. Your cooling still costs power, whether it's fans or water pumps or whatever else. uh an NVL72 blade uh in in a in a GB300 supercomput is two B300's plus a a Grace 72 core ARM CPU. A single blade is 4,000 watts. You can't power 4,000 watts even off a 208 circuit on a residential line. It doesn't exist. Those circuit breakers aren't residentially available. Um, right. >> And so the idea of like, well, when all this all this AI thing dies, we'll just repurpose the hardware. No, the hardware and and I've talked about this before. Oh, GPUs are going to be super cheap because all of a sudden we can buy a B300 and Jeff can can like cloud game it or whatever else. No, the B300 has no API for graphical rendering. It has no raster cores. It has no ability to interpret DirectX, Vulcan, OpenGL uh sourcing. It is Open CL and it is CUDA and that is the only instruction set that that particular accelerator understands. You cannot repurpose that. You can run CUDA code on it. Sure, you can run Open CL code on it. Sure. Same thing with a with AMD. AMD is fully in on uh uh on Rockom, but you can't run Vulcan on on their modern accelerators on the on their MI300s, MI350s, MI360. Uh they don't they're GPU based as far as architecture, but they don't work on the same APIs or the same instruction sets anymore. That's a completely different architecture. You can't repurpose those. >> It's almost like they'll find a way to mine crypto. I'm like, "Have you checked the crypto prices?" [laughter] >> They're in more of a freef fall than the AI market is. >> Yep. Yep. So, it it is um it'll be interesting. I mean, I I am disliking of the hype when it comes to AI. I'm amazed at the tools, the LLMs. Uh we built me and my friend, well, my friend mostly assembled it. Uh, we have a private really cool cluster together of a bunch of pretty high-end video cards that they're simple and some oddage, but we're running a lot of stuff locally. I like the it's really helpful for a lot of things. Yeah, >> it's helpful with just putting commands together. It just helped me write a bunch of stuff I didn't feel like writing. I'm like, write out instruction how to do this because I put things in my forums for my tutorials and I'm like and then I validate to make sure it gave all the right instructions. modify it, you know, minor things, but that was so it's a big time as a companion. I like it. It's fun. >> But, you know, retraining that model is not something on our road map. We're using the model and, you know, inference and all that fun stuff to query it, but actually retraining is way uh different. >> Yeah. Uh and and that's kind of the the crux of it is if if AI crashes, a lot of the models that are, you know, the the bleeding edge of of training data, those are no longer going to be trained because right now the giant data centers are being built so they can train these new LLMs and ingest more data and things like that. If the money's not there to back AI anymore, which is all private, you know, investment, you know, VCO, venture capital, >> um >> that money goes away and every company operating on AI with the exception of Nvidia, but even Nvidia to a point is working on hopes and dreams and promises. Um I mean, what is Open AI? a trillion dollar company with what four billion in revenue and three billion in operating expenses like or sorry was that >> inver 7 and a half billion. >> Sorry that was inversed. My bad. Yeah. Yeah, it was it was yeah 15 billion in expenses and 7 billion in revenue or something like that. Um and so yeah, the dominant player in the market is operating at a 100% loss. Yeah, they're losing money and at some point someone's not going to pay for what and their hope in the future is that people will pay yeah for it and at one point open I had this idea to start charging what an employee was worth. I remember they had this whole pitch that was their idea. If you're paying an employee a h 100red grand for this skill set, we can do that same skill set with our AI and you'd only pay us 80 grand a year for it. And that's and that's the crux of it is AI can replace a worker and you don't have to pay healthare and they can work 24 hours a day and and blah blah blah blah blah. It's it's worker replacement is the crux of why the AI bubble is so big. >> Um, and what's really funny is not many of the AI bros seem to get that. that the whole thing they're trying to save money on is you, my friend. >> Yep. Well, and that's the pitch that's so exciting. It is called capitalism because it's all about protecting the capital. It's not called humanism. It doesn't protect the humans. So, they're trying to replace you, but unfortunately, it's to say it's not lived up to the hype of what it can do would be an understatement. It is cool that it can write out some code and do some things, but it does not do these on her own. Matter of fact, I love all the failures of like we'll have AI plan my vacation and it does an epically bad job. It reminds me of uh was it the rabbit? One of the AI um companion things couldn't even order a custom pizza. We have been able as humans to go online for a long time and customize our pizza, but it was not able to. And I'm like, it failed at ordering a pizza. I could order a pizza on Xbox Live in 2002 and the AI pin that is supposed to take human interactions and turn it into actual actions couldn't order a pizza in 2022. [laughter] >> So yes, it is uh it has not lived up to the hype and claims that it can replace someone. It can't even order a pizza properly. Yep. [snorts] And and I've talked at length about the problem with LLMs in that if it's not trained on a particular data set, it is literally clueless and and it's it's worse than clueless because it just makes [ __ ] up. Um and and I I love to demo with myself because I know myself quite well. And one of my one of my favorite questions to ask an LLM is, "Hey, do you know of the YouTube channel Craft Computing? What can you tell me about it?" And it will spit out line after line of just the most inane [ __ ] imaginable. Um, and uh I get I get on to a lot of forums and people go, "Well, you can ask an AI at sources." And yeah, it'll [ __ ] you about about the source material, but when you ask for a source, it has to provide a source. And so I did that in my last LLM video. I said, "Hey, do you have a source for the fact that Craft Computing is run by James Miller aka Mikey and and founded the channel in 2021 and has so many subscribers and and his videos are about Raspberry Pies and Kubernetes and and crap. Uh, what's your source for that?" and it goes, "Oh, yeah. No, I pulled that all from his his YouTube about page, and here's his Patreon link, and here's his YouTube about page, and here's everything." >> It made all that up, too. Every last thing. >> The other thing, you know, we we talked about earlier of uh don't use LMS for ZFS commands, but there's a bigger reason for that. It's not a good system because it was trained on a lot of terrible advice from Reddit. There there is a plethora of bad advice across the ecosystem. Reddit Reddit upvotes the best answer, not the right answer all the time. The the RMRF, if someone says RMF when someone asks a dumb question, I'm sorry. There's a chance that may get upvoted to the top and it may be suggested as the best way to solve the problem is to delete the problem. >> Nuke it and s start over, right? Um and and this should frighten you. There there was a statistic on Reddit a couple of weeks ago about the amount of training data from particular websites. And I believe in a couple of the more modern LLM uh language models, Reddit accounted for 40% of the database. >> Well, condandy Nast has been selling the Reddit data. That's been part of in cash income they've been doing is their deal with OpenAI. is paying them for the data and >> but Reddit comments, questions, answers, you know, posts accounted for 40% of LLM trading data. >> Yeah, that makes sense. >> Have you met the average Redditor? Have you been online? Have you read through comments? It's not great advice, >> but it's the top answer. Sometimes the best answer. It's not the right answer, but it's why I clicked on the comment section. Anyways, I just want to see what someone had to say about it. >> Yes, >> I I guess this is probably not too far off topic, but the top Reddit comment on this was amazing. Some of you may have heard there have been some files released by a fella who had an island and then they found out that the among in those documents is a copy of the Bash uh book. Yes, >> it's in there. What do you The top Reddit comment really made me laugh because there's someone's like so the title is of course why is this in this person's files and the top comment is everyone has their demons. >> Yes. [laughter] Yes. I I came here for this. >> I saw that comment. I posted it in my Discord, too. Uh because that was so great. >> It was because everyone has their demons. Yes. One of my other favorites is the Nvidia SMI man page is also in the in the files. >> I don't know if you saw that one. Yeah. Um, two more super chats and then we should probably talk about our first story an hour and 53 minutes in. >> Topics we'll run through. >> Home lab hazards. $5. Speak for yourself on that four w000 watt circuit. Jeff, anyone can or any wire can carry any amount of power. It's a question of how long. There's a reason his channel is called Home Lab Hazards. Uh [laughter] then K's worth $5. Uh if AI if it succeeds, we all lose our jobs to AI. AI if it fails, massive market correction and we all lose our jobs to cover the costs of AI failing. >> We're in a win-win situation here. >> Yeah. >> We'll all have more time to play video games. >> Yep. >> Just no money. >> Yep. >> And know. [laughter] >> All right. Um the the title of this episode is Microsoft Vibe Coding uh rce. Uh because look, we we've talked I think the last couple of weeks about the additions to Microsoft's Notepad. Notepad, the Windows 3.1 application that was a text editor in plain text and nothing else. No additions, no spell check, no formatting, no bullet lists, no markdowns, no hyperlinks, no fonts, no nothing. Plain asky text. That's your job. That's what you're supposed to do. >> Yep. Microsoft has made that an official app for the Microsoft Store. And thus you need to log into a Microsoft account to access Notepad. In layman's terms, Notepad now has DRM if you're not logged into a Microsoft account. If you have the Microsoft Store version of it, they have added an AI chatbot to it. They have added markdowns and hypertext to it. And I will claim under no verification or research of my own that all of these additions have been vibecoded. Now why would I say that? Maybe it's because Satia Nadella claims that 30% of all new Microsoft code has been vibecoded. Maybe maybe that's a little inkling here. But the newest edition of Notepad has a very interesting fault in that it can do remote code execution without asking because the markdown segment in the code simply sends to root. I So how do you screw up both Notepad, which is supposed to be simple, and Markdown, which is what I use for most of my notes because I love Markdown, right? And I I believe that's where we peaked. Everything beyond markdown was a mistake. Throwing it out there. Fight me in the comments. But [laughter] the reason they screwed up is Notepad has never had any inputs to sanitize. They've never had to do that before because it's a freaking text editor. >> It's an application that lives in a bubble of itself and nothing in itself ever reaches outside. >> It's never had any any hooks that go outside of that executable. And suddenly it does and it now has inputs to sanitize. But you can create a MD file with a markdown with a hypertext with a code infusion or code injection that will simply run as your privileged user >> because they've never had inputs to sanitize before. I I um can I'm glad someone brought this up because we're going to pivot to this in a moment. I I love that people are typing this in in the comments because this is leading to the next story, Notepad++. [snorts] But I will say my I I had posted on uh the LinkedIn where I usually post some of my rants about security, about Microsoft and Vibe coding and things like that. One of my security friends properly called me out and I was like touche. Uh he pointed out some of the CVS, not the Notepad one, but a couple other ones I had pointed out that happened in addition to this. He's like, "This one goes all the way back to the 2016 edition of Server." And I'm like, "Crap." He's like, "Yeah." He goes, "They don't need Vibe Coding to screw this up, [laughter] right?" >> He goes, "Just just remember, Tom, this you're blaming Vibe Coding, but they they've always been bad. This just didn't make them better." [laughter] >> Microsoft eliminated their QC department in 2018. Um, and and that's when a lot of Microsoft updates got really bad was because they no longer had 4,000 internal programmers who would test updates in production, uh, watch things break, figure out why they broke, and then fix them before the actual update got pushed out to users. Now, they simply push updates to users. And the thing about computers is if you're 99.9% accurate, you're probably fine. But if you're 98% accurate, you're going to break a lot of [ __ ] Um, you're going to break so many edge cases because the world is filled with nothing but edge cases. The world is filled with HP laptops that are running with their lids closed, that are running some SQL server for some backhouse printing company that that hasn't touched that laptop for seven years and it has a do not turn off or unplug sign on it. uh because that's their entire business operation and all of a sudden an update gets pushed to it and all of a sudden that entire business grinds to a halt because some specific driver or function call or whatever else is botched and that business is now cooked and that laptop is now bricked. The world is full of those and Microsoft's 95% accurate now. And the problem is that's way below acceptable. Uh >> yeah. [snorts] Um if you want to listen to some fun history of Microsoft, if you listen to episode 114 of Darknet Diaries titled HD, that's short for HD Moore. And uh one of the things HD Moore did to destroy uh the active X plugins in Internet Explorer was he got in a fight with Microsoft and he said you should remove and fix this. They said we don't this is so many years ago they're like we don't fix vulnerabilities you know we would rather sue you. Um so his idea was to find several hundred of them and release them one day at a time just to cause chaos at Microsoft. He [laughter] wouldn't they like please tell us all of them. He goes, "No, no, >> I just I'm just going to keep dropping one every other day. I have a lot of them and we can make this fun." I It's been a couple years since the story, but it goes roughly like that. I may be embellishing just a little, but trust me, it is The entire episode is entertaining. If you don't know who HD Moore is, uh, look him up. He's pretty infamous. If you've ever used uh Metas-ploit Framework, that's one of his claims to fame. He's the guy that invented that. So yeah, that particular one is a a fun episode and it it covers a lot of Microsoft history because the ethos of Microsoft has always been a wrap you in lawsuits. Uh I always joke that you know Bill Gates Harvard law dropout not got turn computer guy like they're a very ligious company always have been. They've never been concerned about security. They much more like obscurity or or lawyers either one of those. So, but for those of you that want to use Notepad++, hopefully you either were not updating forever or were updating and have all the latest updates and also have checked yourself. So, Notepad++ had a vulnerability in it and there's been some contention over the years. I don't remember all the drama exactly because I don't use Notepad++, but I've kind of fouled a little bit of it because I know its popularity in the marketplace. Yeah. The developer of Notepad++ has a lot of changes, a lot of features, a lot of ads to the thing which requires frequent updates, >> right? >> But there's been a lot of controversy about how those updates were signed and secured. And I remember some rants from the developer of I don't care about your problems. Well, uh, around December 2nd, someone who goes by Kevin Bowmont, also [laughter] aka known as Gassi the dog, former Microsoft security engineer turned wonderful internet troll and good writeup person for security research, uh, talked about people having problems with Notepad++. And it turns out, and it was only revealed about a week ago, Notepad++ was compromised at the update server. So it wasn't exactly a supply chain attack under the normal circumstance of they compromised the developer of Notepad++ but they compromised the hosting server to deploy this extras that you didn't ask for extra features in there. Y >> um it appears to be a Chinesebacked uh AP or advanced persistent threat and they had very narrow scopes of deployment. So, you only got uh the full deployment of something nefarious if you were someone that they were targeting. So, it's not likely. I I can't I say not likely probably for the majority of you, but if a couple of you >> are unfriendly in some way with China, you may have been targeted. Yeah. >> It's like I don't really get involved much with China, but if you are someone who does, you should check. There are ways you can check to see if you were compromised. See if you have the compromised version. Um, and if you got some of the fun extras from the, uh, you know, extra things added by the Chinese AP crew. Uh, it it's an interesting read. Uh, supply chain attacks are scary, uh, because you don't know you got infected until everyone gets infected because that's the idea of supply chain attack. Yep. >> Uh, it all validated, but so there's been more precautions put on the update server. There's been a write up from Notepad++ about this and hopefully, you know, they they finally decided maybe they should >> heed the warnings of security engineers who complained about that for a while ago. >> Yeah. Uh this is actually really similar to the NordVPN attack that happened so many years ago where a couple of nodes got infected because of a hosted uh uh a hosting provider that was hosting one of Nord's servers uh got attacked via their uh uh their lights out management. Um yeah and uh and basically became a man in the middle for a service that should never have a man in the middle. Um, and uh, yeah, kind of supply chain adjacent attack is what I would put this at where it's it's not like the programmer was attacked or the source code was attacked, but something that distributes it and and and maintains updates and validates installs are correct was attacked. Um and mitigating those and and even validating them is very difficult especially on a global scale. >> Yeah. Fun times. >> Yeah. That's why I'm on nano. >> This is ah Vim, man. Got to learn Vim. Uh I opened it once. I couldn't get out of it. >> Well, that's why I'm still using it. I don't know how I don't know how [laughter] >> I don't know how to exit. >> I've always used it. I don't know where the I don't know how to exit. >> It's just still open. It's not that I >> open for years. I decided [laughter] this is what I have to do. >> This is my life now. >> This is my life. >> I can create new files and I can open open new ones, but I >> Yeah. Should we talk about people willingly creating a surveillance system? >> 100%. I I am um so earlier this week um I had a knock on my door from one of my neighbors um who uh they live across the street from me. They have a Ring camera on their door. Uh, and they said, "Hey, uh, we noticed that you picked up a box from the middle of the road and we're just wondering what the story was with that." And what happened was I was driving home one day, I think on Monday, and there was an Amazon box laying in the middle of my culde-sac. And so I parked my car and I'm like, "That's weird. Maybe the wind picked it up. It's probably mine. Uh I get so many boxes in and and we store our boxes on the deck that sometimes the wind kicks up and we shoot cardboard into the neighborhood. It happens. And I'm trying to be a responsible neighbor. So I went and picked up my mess. Um I went and grabbed the cardboard box and it had someone's name Carrie on it. I'm like, "Oh, that's not mine." Well, I'm already here. I'm just going to take care of it. Empty Amazon box. Threw it in my recycling bin. Didn't think anything of it. Uh yesterday afternoon, my neighbor came up and knocked on my door and uh said, "Hey, uh did you guys pick up a box? Did you do some?" And uh so my wife calls me over and I said, "Yeah, I I went up and grabbed something." He goes, "Okay, well, here's the story. About 3:00 in the morning, a little red pickup truck drove into our our our culde-sac, parked in front of our house, opened a whole bunch of boxes, and tossed them out out the side of the door. So, a bunch of porch pirates. >> Oh. >> And then they got rid of the boxes. And he goes, "And we got it all on camera." Um, and so he called police and reported it. And police goes, "Yeah, we we know this guy, you know, whatever else." Um, but uh, a little microcosm of like a lot of people have cameras now. You don't know when you're on film. I certainly didn't think I was on camera when I walked up and picked up a cardboard box out of the middle of my street. Um, but I was in full view and identifiable from the Ring camera. And lo and behold, my neighbor knocks on my door later and says, "Hey, did you pick up a cardboard box?" Innocuous. and neighbors doing the right thing and we're looking out for each other and that's all great. But there was a Super Bowl commercial this last Sunday and I think we'd be remiss if we didn't talk about that and that is Ring encouraging you to activate or not deactivate rather the opt outonly feature of pet detection. Uh pet detection. >> Yeah. If you ever have a dog get out, man, we could coordinate all 100 million ring cameras across the country and find your lost dog. Don't you want your dog back? Isn't that like the ultimate of the human condition of what's the cost of admission for this? All of your privacy. all of your privacy forever in the hands of the current administration, which is current >> any administration, but the current >> any administration in particular, but but the current administration specifically. >> Um maybe that's not the best idea. Maybe 1984 should have had a provision uh outside of like the government is going to spy on you and also don't buy government spying devices and install them on your home willingly. Maybe. Yeah. It in in 1984 the book never predicted that the people would buy the surveillance and install it themselves and pay a subscription for it, not just buy it. >> Yeah. It's uh >> of a particular generation like we we cross over a lot of lines Tom and you know growing up it was the and and you know all through school and and even into college was like never use your real name online never give out your real name online. Uh everyone online is trying to scam you. it it's all some either for higher government surveillance or some nerd do wells who are trying to [snorts] scam you out of all your money. Uh never never take the government's black box and put it in your home. And now Amazon is hey here's a black box. You want to buy it for 80 bucks? >> Yeah. >> No. [laughter] And um the 404 media article, they they have an accompanying podcast and you can watch it on YouTube. Their episode of where they cover it. Uh jump to about halfway through the YouTube video. That's where it starts. Um because they just in general talk about some of the other Super Bowl ads, but they go over the history 404 media has had subpoening lots of shady behavior out of these companies. And Ring has been among the more atrocious ones. They cover a lot of the problems that they had, which includes Ring giving a bunch of cameras to officers, having them hold, I would almost call like a multi-level marketing party to help celebrate and get discount offers for other people to get Ring. >> They're they've just done a whole lot of extras to really find any way to get their product out there. And they have long cooperated very willingly with law enforcement. And recently, if you if you've been following, and I only loosely follow because it came into the privacy scope. I don't follow most of the general news. Yeah. But apparently someone's missing. Someone's mom is missing. I don't know exactly who [clears throat] she is. She's someone of fame. >> Yep. >> But they were able to my This is the weird part, and I I obviously don't have every detail, but the concern is there where they were able to pull surveillance footage for something that they don't have a login to. So, I thought that was weird. They pulled her camera footage and it was a comment that she didn't have a subscription. It's not a ring. It's one of the competitors. I believe it's a Nest Cam. >> It's Nest. Yeah. Um, >> still the details are a little unclear to me unless I as I hate the hyperbole that comes with a lot of the news of overhyping something, but it does seem concerning that they were able to get that. >> Yeah. Uh, it's uh Nancy Guthrie uh 84 year old woman who is the mother of it's not a uh mother of Samantha Guthrie or Savannah Guthrie. um who is I believe the current Today host. >> Okay. >> Um >> I know she's a host in and someone I'd never heard of before. So >> yeah. Um >> but it's not in my purview to watch that. So >> but um her mother's house who the the woman was abducted from had a Nest cam on on the doorbell. didn't have an active subscription, which means the footage shouldn't have even been saved, let alone been obtainable. Yet, somehow they say, "Oh, it was I don't even remember the word they used for it." Uh, basically like discarded data or or remnant data or something like that. It's like that's not a thing. It's either recording or it's not. It's either uploading to the cloud or it's not. There's [snorts] not a lot of >> binary answer. >> Yeah, it's a binary answer. It's a yes or a no, please, Senator. It's not a well, we got like, you know, a couple of frames and then AI reconstructed the rest. No, it's not even that. It's you got the video. >> Yeah, >> you got the video. Period. End of discussion. And look, what what what is happening there is unthinkable and horrible, but I'm also appalled at the gall of Nest and Ring and everyone else for enabling essentially state surveillance in this. Yes, this may end up helping save this woman, but that's not a good thing from a privacy perspective. Well, [clears throat] and it gets deeper because the other privacy problem is flock. And many of you, I'm sure, have followed Ben Jordan's. Oh, yes. >> I love Ben Jordan. I uh subscribed to his Patreon. And Ben Jordan recently released a video talking about Flock not being able to do the thing that they claim. And he points out where Guthrie lives versus how many Flock cameras that the place is paid for. And no leads to go on from it. So they were not useful in that. So >> yeah, the the one thing it was designed to do is the one thing it failed at doing in a case of of a missing person and and an unknown, you know, unknown nerd. Well, it's like you should be able to track the cars that came in and out of that neighborhood and track unusual activity, especially at 3:00 in the morning. There was what, one car that went by you in 4 hours? >> Yeah. You would think you would have an identifying lead on that one. Nope. Sorry. So, we're giving up all of our privacy for absolutely no gain. >> Yep. Just surveillance. >> Just surveillance. >> Speaking of giving up our privacy, >> we got a lot of these stories lately, by the way. >> Yeah. This is the last one we got here, but it's uh I'm sure no one's mad at Discord. >> I'm mad at Discord. I have a very vested interest in Discord. My Patreon, the sole reason for it to exist is to link you to my Discord server. Patreon acts as a moat to keep my Discord server free of trolls. It's the whole reason it exists. The whole reason I use Discord is so I can form a community and chat and and and interact with my community on a weekly basis. Um, however, Discord has recently put out that they will be enforcing an age check verification for any 18 or over server. My problem is my server is partially based on alcohol, which means I'm an 18 plus server, which means to say on my server, you would need to verify your age. What have I done in the interim? I have removed the 18 plus uh notification for the two channels that we had it on. Uh, we don't share adult images. We talk about alcohol and anyone of any age can talk about alcohol. No one recommends I mean >> yes we we review alcohol and we talk about alcohol on there constantly but it's not like we're forcing or pressuring anyone to drink alcohol. You can you can log into Reddit and talk about a beer all you want at age 14. It doesn't matter. Um but uh we've removed the age criteria from my Discord because I don't I don't like this. >> [snorts] >> But I also don't know that I blame Discord other than the fact that they're caving in on compliance with this [sighs and gasps] >> and and we're that's the challenge. It's not D discord doesn't want to do this. There's not they're not beating the drum of we want to do this. >> That's a big piece of it. And it's the same thing and we'll we'll talk about the other elephant in the room, Pornhub. They're not beating the drum how to do this either. Yeah. beat a different drum altogether. And [laughter] but they've have to comply a lot with these laws because almost half I think we're up to 25 or 26 states Pornhub has stopped servicing. >> 31 >> 31. Okay. Yeah. It's it's raising all the time and 404 media has covered some of this because they have to comply with these rules and trust me Pornhub doesn't want these rules. They want you to watch their stuff. That's this is not in any way convenience uh for us. Now these companies I don't know if they could band together in a way to protest it simultaneously all at once. Maybe it is a difficult position because what you can easily say from where me and Jeff sit who are not CEOs of Pornhub or Discord that I'm aware of. [laughter] So um >> you don't know who I you don't know my sketchy history. Yeah, don't sketch. But it's easy for us to say that. But I will admit it's one of those things like even when I with my business, I had run into legal stuff that I did not want to be my problem. I suddenly had to expense money and deal with stuff that became my problem. Uh that, >> you know, people were wanting me to deal with, but it cost me money to deal with. I didn't want to, but I also didn't want to be not in compliance with the law. And it's one of those weird situations like it's easy to protest but once it starts costing you the out of pocket and also you're like which which way do I want to go? Fight the government or comply with the government which is the least expensive route to go to solve this problem is how businesses look at it. You know that those are challenges I ran into as a business and it's challenges at a larger scale because of this size that those companies operate at where do we want to fight a government that clearly doesn't really care about the laws. they only care about enforcing or extorting. Um, so you're in a really tight situation. So, I don't truly hate Discord for it, but there's a little bit of win here because I see a lot of people talking about self-hosted services and there's a part of me that enjoys the more decentralized version of the web. Yeah. So, Discord, I know, is the de facto standard for people who game and want to be in communities or set up YouTube channels with Discords. You know, I I don't blame Jeff for doing it. It's definitely the the best tool suited for the job in the era we live in, but I am impartial to the bigger concept of decentralized um where where there's a world where Tom has his Discord server, Jeff has his Discord server, but we're actually self-hosting it and are federated in some way. So you can have the same user ID%. You know, this is the concept that drives like massedon and some of the underlying technologies of it. Uh is it matrix I believe that that I get mixed up with some of the underlying technology. I understand the concept of how they're federating. Um I can't remember all the names of the players in the game. There's a lot of moving parts. But I I like that concept of the internet, the free and open internet. And for people who say this doesn't scale, email is the ultimated is the ultimate unfederate federated system where I can send an email to not that he'll reply, but whatever Jeff's email address is a craft computing. He's not the best at replying, but if Jeff were to reply, he could. [laughter] How dare you, sir. >> Pro tip, message Jeff on uh Discord. >> Yes. Yes. Um Yeah. No, I look I I started my Discord server in early 2018 uh because it was the platform that you joined to create communities exactly like what I wanted to create which was uh live chat instances, multiple rooms, voice and video chat uh and uh free of charge. Just create an account, join on in and that has been the driving force of my my Patreon is to get access to my Discord server. Um, as the wind blows, uh, trust me, I am constantly looking at alter alternatives. Um, and being the home labber and the self hoster that I am, I I am also very much a fan of of fetverse like technology, uh, of mastadon and things like that. Um, it's all a matter of is anyone is everyone going to go the same way the wind blows? And right now I have a vested interest in Discord succeeding simply because I have,00 users on my Discord who are paying me a monthly fee to be a member of my Discord. If Discord goes away, that community evaporates. And so I need to be very careful about like my next moves monetarily. And and by the way, Patreon is my number two income source uh to anything else that I do on my channel. Patreon will always be the thing that I consider first and foremost as far as community, as far as even like my own monetary gain because it is one of the highest earning things that I that I do. Um, if there is an alternative service that the majority of my Patreon and Discord users agree to move on to, we will move on to that. Whether it's spacebar, whether it's uh Matrix, whether it's any any number of other services, but we also have a number of criteria that we all need to meet. needs to be installable on basically anything because I have users on my service that are everything from Windows to Linux to Mac to BSD. Okay, it needs to be universal. Uh >> web browser >> could also be a web browser, but the problem with the web browser is it's not always on, which means it's a dedicated decision to turn it on. Uh which means >> I only run Discord in a web browser, but I because I have strong opinions on things, >> right? But that but that means 80% of users will never turn it on unless they specifically go to Discord. Discord as an application, as a standalone application is a big reason why the community is as good as it is is because everyone is by default on the community. And >> uh having it available in a web browser means you need to open a web browser and then go to Discord and that doesn't work to keep people engaged. Um >> we peaked at IRC, man. This is just like we peaked at markdown for text. We peaked at IRC for >> everyone was on ICQ and it's for that exact same reason was it was a standalone application that you can be on that links you to everyone else and I think we peaked at ICQ. Um >> there's a chance of that. I don't know. I I I'm old IRC nerd. So >> yeah. Um but we also quite frequently use a number of the more advanced services inside of Discord. We do forum posts in there. We have a buy sell page that people can post things for sale and and get get thread chats with. Uh we do uh live stream events. Uh we do uh game streaming. We do video chat. We do a whole bunch of other things that take advantage of every single service that Discord offers. And if Discord evaporates, that community kind of evaporates with it unless we have a viable alternative that includes all of those features that we all that we use every single day. Um, so I am actively looking uh at a Discord alternative because I don't believe in subjecting my user base to forced ID authentication and and voice and facial scanning and all this other BS because it is BS because when I was a kid in 1998 and you went to a random porn site and they said, "Are you 18?" I said, "Of freaking course I am." and I got access to the porn site and that was all the ID identification that was needed. And you know what? Even if I needed to submit something, I as a 12-year-old kid probably would have gotten around it because that's that's kids and technology and everything else. Any roadblock you put in the way will simply either it's going to stop the idiots, but it's not going to stop the determined. And all it'll do is force the determined into shadier sites. that one. Yeah. And for definitely all the problems with places like Pornhub, there are far worse sites that are far less compliant with takedown notices, etc. for all the problems that come with that genre of content. So, you know, 44s dove a lot on that topic, so I'm not going to rehash it if you want to dive deeper into it. Uh, but we're as as so many things in life, we're choosing the least worst option. [laughter] I'm not choosing the best option. There is no best option, right? We're just voting for the least worst option. >> Yeah. What is the least worst option? I don't know. But the least worst option needs to include live text chat, live v voice chat, live video chat, uh, stream capture, and so being able to capture your screen and and transmit it to everyone else. And it needs to be in a single application that's not just a web app. It it needs to be a dedicated application. Uh because without a dedicated application, you're not going to get the community buyin because otherwise people have to open Firefox and go to discord.com and then log into their particular instance or whatever else. That's not the thing that keeps people engaged. >> Yeah. I seen someone said they really wish the companies would stop uh trying to parent the internet. It's not the companies at all. Trust me, the companies do not want to do any of this. This is extra effort that they don't want. These are government >> uh enforced rules upon them. >> It is, trust me, the company there's there's no >> monetary benefit for them to spend money on tying you to age verification. This is an expense to them that doesn't have added value. I mean, sure, you could say maybe they're harvesting some data out of it if they could, and maybe they have maybe that data has some value, but does it? Um, they already have enough data. You shove all your data into Discord. They know what you do. They know what you type. They That's enough information to target you for ads. >> Yep. >> So, that's enough info. I don't know that they need my driver's license to target me further for ads. I don't know what value that would bring compared to the expense. >> Yeah. >> Um, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there's some, I don't know, company that's willing to pay money for my driver's license. I I But it feels like a little bit of a stretch. Honestly, I feel that they would rather not do it because one, it creates friction for their users. They do not want more friction. They want people just to be onboarded and log in. So, in my Discord server, Tricklogic just typed in, he's just describing MS Teams. [laughter] >> We're moving to Teams. >> I hate that so much. >> You cannot fathom how much I hate that sentence. >> [laughter] >> Uh yeah. Um hopefully this all gets worked out. Oh, that's fine. [snorts] Or or AI bubble pops and then no one cares about this because everyone's running around because they suddenly don't have their money to throw at politicians to lobby them to make them make them force >> IDs. Exactly. >> See, that's that's why I needed to pop because if the lobbyists didn't have as much money to throw at the politicians that would do the dumb things because just the politicians don't know why they people want this. They just know they get a good dinner and a bunch of money for doing this. >> Yeah. Uh every couple of years there's usually reports on uh your your local representatives uh who who wrote checks to them, what packs they're a member of, etc., etc. And uh one of my favorites, and I think maybe we'll close with this since we're 30 minutes past the hour now. Yeah. um was uh Comcast was spending millions upon millions of dollars lobbying against the the Rural Broadband Act, which stated you had to provide 25 megbit uh and [clears throat] 3 megabit up to be considered broadband and that broadband was going to be a requirement for every end point on every single network if you provided internet access to anyone. And Comcast goes, "Well, we don't want to spend uh, you know, $200,000 running out broadband to last mile to this one farm that's 7 miles outside town." And the feds were like, "Well, sorry. That's what the requirement is going to be." Um, what irritated me was not the fact that people like Ted Cruz got like $930,000 to try to shoot this bill down, but that the local Oregon senator got $30,000 to shoot it down. I'm like, "You cheap son of a bitch." [laughter] Like, seriously, if you're going to take the money, you take a payday. >> Yeah. Sell yourself out for a proper price. >> If you're going to sell yourself out, freaking [ __ ] yourself out, man. Like, come on. Have some self-respect. [laughter] [snorts] >> Fun stuff. >> Yep. [laughter] >> All right. All right. Well, I think we'll wind it down here. I've reached the bottom of my glass. We've reached the top of the hour. >> Yep. Yep. >> Top of the next hour. >> Yep. Mine is uh literally There it goes. >> Oh, that was all 13% of that. >> That was tasty. That was very good. Uh there's a little bit left in the bottle. Maybe we'll we'll review it in the afterparty. Anyway, if you'd like to take part in the exclusive afterparty, you have to join the Discord. To join the Discord, you have to join the Patreon. It's the moat that keeps the trolls at bay. Uh, but patreon.com/craftcomputing link down in the video description. Join that. Get access to the Discord. Join the community. We have an awesome time over there every single week. Uh, we play we play games together. We we do live streams. I do Q&As's. We we do the afterparty uh every single week immediately following the show. You can video chat live with me. If you want to ask any of us questions, just at us. We're all in the chat. Even Tom's in the chat. If you add him, he'll usually respond, but he's east coast, so you have to do it earlier in the day. >> So, [laughter] >> but I'm around. I reply. I I catch up on messages. >> Exactly. Yeah. Uh, but fantastic community. I I could not be more proud. And I hope Discord keeps going for a long long time because I I'm not looking forward to having to transition my community, although I will if I need to. >> Yeah. How's that? >> It is a pain. The switching costs are high and it is painful. Y >> um I I have my own gripes sometimes with Discord, but I don't I don't truly blame them for this particular uh issue. So >> yeah. Yeah, this one. But like I said, we've removed the 18 plus requirement from our server because all we do over there is talk about beer. Sometimes there's a dedicated beer channel. I've removed the 18 plus off of that because I don't care what country you're from, you can probably talk about beer. Um, >> yeah. >> And if you have a valid credit card and are able to sign up for Patreon, you're probably over the age of 18 anyway. So, I use that as a gate check in the first place. >> Um, we'll go with that. >> Yeah, we're going to go with that. >> Uh, anyway, if you like this this show and want to support us, drop this video a like, subscribe to Craft Computing, subscribe to Lawrence Systems, link down in the video description for all the uh the goodness that both of us produce. Uh Tom, anything good of the order before we close? >> No, I think we've uh we've covered it all. We've uh it's been a good show. I'm tired. >> It has been. I am tired, too. >> It is 11:30 Eastern Standard Time and [laughter] for reasons unexplained to me, I woke up at 4:30 cuz I had an idea and so I'm tired. >> I have a four-year-old and so I'm up at like 5. >> Sometimes that happens when I 5:00 every day. So, I get you >> I just wake up and I'm like I I have this thing I want to do and I started working on it and next thing you know it's 11:30 at night. >> No, I I shot a full video today as well and uh that'll be coming out I think Friday. I I shot a review of the Dell GB10 today. Uh so that'll be coming out hopefully in a couple of days before I go on a brief vacation. >> And I do have uh some Proxmox videos coming out. So that's that'll be exciting to people. Proxmox on shass. Woohoo. >> He's coming over to the dark side slowly but surely. coming over to the dark. I'm going to tell you how to do it right. This This is one of those I will produce it out of the anger of it being wrong. Someone was wrong on the internet, so I have to make a video to do it right. >> That freaking craft computing guy doesn't know what he's doing. I'm going to [laughter] No, it was someone on Reddit because it's always someone on Reddit is wrong. >> It's usually someone on Reddit. That is that is so true. >> People are listening to this person. Why? This is This is the top comment. It's the funny comment. It's not the right comment. >> Yeah. >> Oh, you installed the service wrong. Just rm-rf. It >> It works all the time. Every time. >> All the time. Every time. Thank you all so much for watching. Join us every Wednesday night at 6 p.m. Pacific time for the latest end beer and tech news. And we will see you next week.

Thanks to Meter for sponsoring today's episode. If you're interested in learning more about how Meter can help with your IT Infrastructure, go to https://meter.com/craftcomputing to book a demo today. Welcome to Talking Heads, your once weekly show about everything happening in the world of Homelab, Servers, craft beer and cocktails. Check out this episode in Podcast form over at https://open.spotify.com/show/31ZxkU6RwPHG8A4jQjxSG3 Support us on Patreon and get access to our exclusive Discord server. Chat with all of the hosts from Talking Heads all week long. https://www.patreon.com/CraftComputing Want to fuel Craft Computing? Parts, beer, gifts? I've got a mailbox! Craft Computing 1567 Edgewater St NW, #51 Salem, OR 97304 Follow Jeff @CraftComputing on most platforms Follow Tom ⁨@LAWRENCESYSTEMS⁩ On tonight's show... - Tech News - - Tech News - Microsoft adds AI, Markdown, RCE into Notepad https://foss-daily.org/posts/microsoft-notepad-2026/ Ring says let us AI scrub your videos… for the pets https://www.404media.co/with-ring-american-consumers-built-a-surveillance-dragnet/ Free Tool to Bypass Discord Age Authentication https://www.404media.co/free-tool-says-it-can-bypass-discords-age-verification-check-with-a-3d-model/