LUST Is a SPIRITUAL TRAP: Why You Can’t Stop, and How to Break the Cycle @anointedfireofficial

If you're dealing with male promiscuity, female promiscuity, just promiscuity, period, that person can never be satisfied. Can you please walk us through that spiritual transaction? Sex within itself outside of God's will is going to be witchcraft because it's like a ritual. I'm doing something that invokes power. That's the most addictive thing you can give a person. Think that that's going to make them feel good. It doesn't exist. The flesh cannot be satisfied. Every sin has a reward. The reward ultimately is going to be death. And that sounds crazy, right? I would never frame it with that title. Words are nothing but spells. Once you start to feed it, you just put a seed in the ground and that seed is demon food. How is it that somebody who is fornicated have the conviction to really stop and know like, "No, this is wrong. I know this is wrong, but I still got this desire. The body was not designed for fornication." Well, you can come do this and it'll make you feel better. You don't look at it as a sin anymore. I'm breaking me while pleasuring me at the same time. But it's only a matter of time because perversion doesn't care. That same man, they start to look at children. Demons don't come in and make people bad. that they come in and make them worse. If they're trapped in this cycle, how is it that they find a way out? Like, what exactly should they do? What's going on, initiates? My name is Jessica Lane McDonald, and I want to welcome you guys to another episode of Hardly Initiated. Today is going to be an episode that's really layered because I really want to dive deep into lust, adultery, as well as infidelity, but I want to talk about it from a spiritual realm instead of an earthly one. So, I have somebody that is so amazing with me here today. Um, you guys know her as anointed fire, but she actually comes with that fire. Okay. She is a deliverance minister. She is an author, Miss Tiffany Buckner. How are you? I am great. No complaints. How are you? >> I'm good. I'm amazing. I'm amazing. >> So good to sit with you. >> So good to have you. >> Look amazing. >> You look gorgeous. Absolutely gorgeous. so much. Yeah. >> So, I kind of want to get into the conversation for today because last time we spoke a little bit about adultery um in our last episode, but I think before we even get into adultery, there's something else that starts that and it's the spirit of lust. So, I really want to go into a spiritual realm so that people have like a more depth understanding of how this even comes about and then when it comes about, how do we navigate those things? So when lust it means to have an ungodly desire for that mean that the desire goes opposite of God. Um and so typically what happens is if you think of the word like Satan it means adversary and which means adverse it comes from so it I always look at it this way God is facing to the right adversary faces to the left. And so that's what lust is is that I'm no longer walking with God. Amos 3:3 says can two walk together except they be agreed. You got to be in agreement with God in order to walk with God. And so lust comes in whenever the desire for something outside of the will of God starts to come in. And this is when we start tapping into our fallen nature. We start tapping into those things. And if those things are fed, they grow. I always say, "Whatever you feed will grow. Whatever you starve will die." So that's how it gets in. >> It's interesting you mentioned that because James actually I was looking at this scripture earlier today. James 14 and 15, temptation comes from our own desires which entice us and drag us away. These desires give birth to sinful actions and when the sin is allowed to grow it gives birth to death. Um the Bible tells us that God is love. So lust is the opposite of love because the desire of love is that we have everlasting life and that we live abundantly. Um but when it comes down to lust, it is whatever Adam and Eve said within when they were in the garden um when the the devil when Satan came and he tempted them, he said you will be as God. I'm knowing all things. And in this, he's saying, you'll be an independent woman. You'll be independent of anything. You won't have to figure out uh you don't have to ask God questions. You'll be your own God. And so, what he did was in that garden, he created or he opened the door for lust. And since then, human beings have this desire to be like God. And you see it all the time. When people are out there, it's just like having to wait on God means to crucify the flesh, to die to yourself. And truthfully, your flesh don't want to do that. And so, your flesh is a war. Your flesh and your spirit war with one another. Your flesh don't want to die. Your flesh wants to live. And so, your flesh gives you ungodly desires. And if you feed them, they begin to grow. And that's all lust is, is just feeding those desires. But your spirit then aligns with God. Your spirit man wants to live. Um, and so there's this fight within ourselves, whereas we're trying to figure out how do I how do I serve God? but at the same time deal with these desires that I have. But the core of every desire is to be like God. That was the original saying. So that's the thing that got plugged into us. How do how am I to be not even be like God, but to be my own God. How do I so I don't have to worry about money. I don't have to worry about this because what the enemy stole from us in the garden was he stole from us everything that God imputed into us. Everything that made us whole. Um, and so what we're doing, we're on this journey trying to become whole again genuinely every time. Like when you going out there chasing, you know, a lot of single women chasing relationships. A lot of people chasing just uh maybe platforms. They're chasing money. They're chasing power. But it is really a desire to be made whole again. It's just that hunger within. It's a desire to get back to the place that we fell from. But lust is that desire within. that flesh that that that thing that was fed that says continue to feed me and I am your God. That's what the flesh wants. The flesh wants to be your God. Your flesh wants to rule over. So you're dealing with in within the human being. You're dealing with two. So you're dealing with polytheism. You're having to fight down polytheism which is a desire to have another god at the same time while serving Yahweh. And so that's all lust is is the fight between the spirit and the flesh. The the flesh is what brings us to lust. The flesh is what has those ungodly desires, the things that Satan put into us or what have you. So that's all it is. It's just basically a desire to make your flesh allow your flesh to take the front seat when it's supposed to be in the back seat. >> So the Bible talks about not fornicating and the church just tells us to just wait, right? But nobody really talks about how to wait and I feel like there's a missing gap there. Um, so what would you say spiritually and practically that people can do to learn how to really govern themselves in a season of abstinence? What religion did and I think this is where we had our our biggest mistake. Religion made us get into behavioral modification. So basically, okay, I know this is wrong, but I still got this desire. I still feel pulled to this. I feel I still want this. One of the things I learned because I used to be a fornicator deep into it and it's really idolatry realistically speaking is the core of it is idolatry but when I was in it nobody I didn't have enough word in me to stop. So my flesh had more words um with words that I've spoken over myself words that my parents people have spoken into my life I had more words in me but I didn't have the word in me. David said I took your word and I stored it within my heart so that I would not sin against you. So, one, the desire never leaves. You know, I've been absent in 12 years. By the grace of God, the desire never leaves. You know, especially if you have uh given in to the desire before, the desire never leaves. And I I know people that are virgins and they still have the desire because that's the fallen nature. Desire never leaves. As a matter of fact, it's not even bad to to have the desire, right? It's a it's bad to have the desire to go outside of God's will. Um because sex is a natural thing between a husband and a wife, and the desire is there for your spouse. But we in order to crucify it, you have to ignore it. And in this you that you have to be careful what you take in. Um if you listen to certain music, it's going to encourage it. It's going to speak words. And I always say words are nothing but spells. Realistically speaking, this where we get the word spelling. So if I'm listening to R. Kelly, I'm listening to it. >> I never thought about that. >> Yes. And I'm like I'm what I'm doing is I'm putting a spell on myself because as I'm listening to the music, it's taking me into a certain emotion. is giving me thoughts. The Bible says, "Cast down imaginations and every high thing that exalts us up against the knowledge of God and bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ." Well, if I'm not casting it down or if I'm listening to R. Kelly, if I'm listening to music, that tells me, right? So now I'm taking their imagination. And so when it comes down, for example, to R. Kelly's lyrics, that's a spell. When you're listening to music, it's a spell. All it is is like music, especially on music, is nothing but witchcraft put to a beat. That's it. Because this is what witches do. They chant. And so what you do or what they're doing is it create a rhythm to it which helps your imagination to hold it a lot longer and then to get it into your heart, the very heart God told you to guard. And so when you're doing that, it brings you into an emotion. It brings you into a feeling and it feels right. And everything that feels right, you want to explore a little bit deeper. This why a lot of people when they're trying to avoid fornication, for example, they will say, "I'm not going to do anything with him. I'm just going to go over to his house and we're just going to hang out." But once they get over there, it's not wise because once they get over there, there's going to be a feeling he's saying the right things. I want to sit closer. And then once they get closer, even though they told themselves in the car, I'm not going to do anything. Um, once they get closer, touch hands, it feels good. I want to go deeper. Um, and then once the kiss goes in, I want to go deeper. And that's what happens is you're lured into it by your own imagination or even those words, the words in the music or what have you. So all of these things are the things that cause us to uh get pulled into us. All of these things that tell keep keep us um pouring into it, feeding it, and once it's fed, it starts to have this greater hunger. It's been it's been made a culture here to have boyfriend, girlfriend, people shacking up. And the more a thing is uh fed, the more celebrity it becomes. Um that means it's been celebrated. And so then it becomes uh it starts to be mildly celebrated until it becomes culture until it becomes normalized. And the root word of culture is cult. So that mean when you start having a large group of people, you have a a lot of people getting into that it they become cultlike. Even though they may not know each other, they can be living all around the place, they become cultlike wherein they start to adhere to c certain principles. And um principles are the seats of principalities. So anytime anything is normalized then there's a principality a spirit a high ranking spirit that starts to rule over that and it's going to have more principles that you start to see integrated like witchcraft whenever you start seeing uh let's say the breakdown of the family witchcraft is inedible inedible whenever you start seeing uh families uh where or you start seeing fornication you start seeing like children born outside of wedlock when that becomes culture you're going to start seeing more witchcraft because things begin to fall apart. It's just like how God created things that if I take >> Wait, write break that down. When you see broken families, it becomes more witchcraft. >> So sex within itself outside of God's will is going to be witchcraft because it's it's like a ritual or it is a ritual because in this what what a ritual is is I'm doing something that is that invokes power. You are a spirit. Anything spiritual, you are a spirit inside of a body. I'm doing something to get a result which is the the nature of witchcraft but I'm doing something to get a result from the other side of the spectrum instead of getting it from God. God says seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things will be added to you. But where when there comes the temptation and the temptation is I want let's say I want to be loved. So this is what the enemy does. He'll rob people of their love. So the father's not there. Um they have a broken home, broken family, broken lineage. And so that creates a void. And wherever there's a void, there's going to be that hunger. And whenever there's that hunger, that person, they say, "Okay, I want to have somebody." I've never had a male figure who came in and truly loved me, that really loved me. That's where the void comes in. And within the void, the void represents darkness. It's a dark hole in the soul. I always say this, the devil has dominion over darkness. It is emptiness in the soul. And this is where demons exist. They exist in the emptiness. And so consequently, wherever there is that void is going to have what I call a gravitational pull called attraction. Um, so in it, a person could be Christian and love the Lord, but yet they never fill that void. That void is a place that God supposed to be in because it's darkness. Light represents revelation. It's the word of God, the will of God. They don't have God in that area. So even though they're going to church and like I said the church teaches behavior modification which you know is erroneous because at the end of the day behavior modification is good but perfect love cast out fear. So there's a casting out. There's something that has to come out. Um and so what has to happen in that particular room is that person has to seek God so that he said if father and mother forsake you the Lord will take you up. They have to see God get the wisdom of God get the revelation of God. They got to get into God all the more. If not, what happens is there's going to be lust in that room. Lust is not always sexual. It's just an ungodly desire. All right. So, you talk about the spirit of idolatry, and I think that um that's an interesting perspective when we come in talking about lust as well as fornication. So, can you just break down what what what exactly is it that we're idolizing? What we're idolizing is something that belongs to us in the first place, which is the funny part. You know, God is love. everything that we need cuz he desired us. Everything that we want, everything we desire, everything we need is in him. And what we're idolizing is those very needs, but we just don't want to go to him for it because of the fallen nature of the flesh. Um, we want to go the quick way. We want to get the fast food instead of going out and get the healthy food because the healthy food requires a process. It costs a little bit more money. It has more of a process to it. And so, it's the same thing when it comes down to relationships. You know, the Bible says, "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness." And nobody want the flesh doesn't want to do that. The flesh wants to go straight to it. The flesh wants to get filled up quick. Whereas the spirit of a person needs the process. We need the wisdom. We need the revelation. We need the experiences. We need the things that we even need the warfare. We need all of those things that we go through because even in the midst of the warfare, there's typically going to be some revelation. But fornication or the way it shows up as idolatry is because it is a desire to submit. It is a desire desire to submit to something other than God in exchange for getting something that God didn't want us to have or something that we already would have in God if we went through the process. So for example, it's like you have children your children if they come to you at 7 years old and they say, "Mom, can I get the keys to the car?" You can have a car reserved for them. You're not going to give it to them because in this you love them enough to say no because I want you to live. I want you to get I don't want you to get a ticket, but I don't want you to go out here and hurt yourself in any way either. And so there are certain things that you put on the top shelf, certain things you put out of their reach. Not because you don't want them to have them eventually, but because of where they are right now, they won't understand it. Um, so consequently, they can't see over the dashboard. They can't see out the window, which would cause them to hurt themselves or somebody else. It's the same thing when it comes down to fornication. Whenever we have that void, there is a desire there to go out there and chase the thing that belongs to us. When God is saying, "Chase me." And he says, "Seek me." And I feel all of those voids. But the enemy says, "Why would you go through all that? That's too much of a process. You going God, ain't no telling when God's going to this why he said walk by faith and not by sight. There's no telling when God going to give you what you want or how he's going to give you what you want." And so the enemy says, "If you take this route, you can go get it right now and it will come to you right now and you don't have to worry and then you can just come back and repent." And this is what the enemy said. you can come back and repent. Which is where a lot of Christians have a false understanding of repentance. Repentance doesn't mean to say I'm sorry. You know, it's like having a cheater. Um they come back and say I'm sorry and they going to cheat again. And they say I'm sorry and cheat again. And they say I'm sorry. They're not sorry. They're just c they're dealing with a stronghold. They're sorry when they turn away from it. They're sorry when they go and say, "Hey, I got a problem. You know, I have a problem. I don't know how to get over this and I don't know how to do this." This is what God requires of us. where he said, "Confess your sins one to another." He told us to confess our sins to him. When we confess our sins to him, what we're saying is, "I'm struggling over here. I don't know how to overcome this." And so, consequently, uh when we're confessing our sins to God, what we're doing is we're taking those ungodly desires. We're casting our burden upon the Lord. However, when it comes down to like fornication, it's adure because instead of casting that burden onto the Lord, you listen to the voice in your mind, which is the enemy. a voice in the mind which he plays what I call a demonic commercial calling imagination. Why God said casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God and bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. The enemy plays this imagination in your mind. It's commercial. You can have love acceptance. You can have all that right now, >> but all you got to do is you got to sin. You got to sin to get it, but you can get it right now. Whereas God is going to make you die to yourself, crucify yourself, and it could be years down the road before you get it. But if I give in to it right now, the enemy says, "I can have it right now." And then when you give in to it, then you start to feed it. And once you start to feed it, you just put a seed in the ground. And that seed is going to grow up. And that seed is demon food. And this is where spirits come in. That's why I say demons don't come in and make people bad. They come in and make them worse. You know, they come in because we're sewing into the sin. And then whenever that garden starts, which is going to be the works of the flesh, that's when the enemy is easy for him to come in. Um but basically idolatry is just chasing after another god. Even if you don't recognize it, identify it, bow to it, worship it, is still chasing something else or putting something before him. He said, um put no other gods before me or have no other gods before me. Anytime anything comes before him, that means in chronology, anything you put and not just even chronology, he's saying in my face, right? And we know that he's omnipresent. know everything we do is in his face but it's having another god in the presence of the living God um and it is even if it's cell phones if it's marriage if it's uh I want to be acceptance I want to be accepted all of those things can serve as idols fornication is going to be the most recognizable one because this is the ritualistic part because in this you're literally giving your body as a sacrifice you're sacrificing your body in this where your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit spirit, but you're sacrificing your body to get the thing that you want instead of sacrificing your flesh to do the will of God. >> So, what principalities take over us to make these things so cyclical to where they just keep happening over and over? Because I know you said the true definition of of of repentance is saying, "I'm not going to do it again." But for the person who keeps doing it again, what is over them that makes them keep operating in that realm? Lucifer, if I can break it down, it's going to be Lucifer is going to be the head. Um, in that because in there, Lucifer said, "I will be like God or I will be like, I will lift my throne above the stars of God. I will sit my seat on the what was that? The north of the congregation. I will be like God." Is Lucifer is going to be the overarcher. Um, and there are other principalities under him, but that's the overarching is the desire to be like God. It's a desire to be to have what I want >> everything that we want by ourselves as opposed to surrendering to wait on it to get it. >> We're people are in competition with Yahweh and they don't realize it because it's like, "Okay, God, you're making me die. You're making me do this. You're making me do that. In order for me to get what I wanted, I got to go through all of this." And so consequently, I don't want to go through all of that. But then there's that voice that Eve heard that still comes into our fallen nature. Well, you ain't got to do all that. you can go this route instead and you can get all of those things and you won't need God and you'll get all those things because there's this this belief within that if I had all those things I'd be satisfied. It's a lie. It's lust. You can never fill because every void is God size. Every void has is God size. You can never fill a void. Which is why you have multi-millionaires that or billionaires that will get to the top and still kill themselves. They kill themselves because they thought as soon as I get to the top and I have all the money and I have all the fame and I have all of this, I'll be happy. It doesn't happen. Instead, it the void gets bigger because they're having to feed it with uh doing a lot of evil things in order to feed it. It gets bigger and bigger and bigger, which means more higher ranking spirits come in and consequently they realize I'm more desperate now. I'm more sad now. I feel more isolated now than I've ever felt. And that's the worst place to be is because in that space they say well there is no hope for me. If this ain't happy and this ain't good enough there is no hope for me. So then they desire that's when they start talking about or even attempting to take it take their life >> cuz they feel like they reached everything. Yes. And at the end it's still nothing. >> Got to the end of the rainbow. I remember growing up they um there was this like movies or these cartoons they used to make you think that at the end of that rainbow was gold and be but you had to fight the leprechaun. And me and my brother, we will literally run. We see a rainbow, we would run trying to get to the end of it because we used to think that at the end of the rainbow is gold. And some people, they are chasing the end of the rainbow. They're chasing something and they think once I get here, I'll be happy. I It doesn't exist. Nothing like that exists outside of God. There is no end of the rainbow with God. But once we uh we have that desire, once we have this thing in our mind, then we just continue to build upon it. And the enemy just keeps moving with the goalpost. As soon as you achieve one goal, he moves the goalpost. But God in his grace and his mercy in many cases fishing. >> Yes. He what he does, he makes sure you don't get to the goalpost. So God, his he makes sure his children, he'll keep moving it because he knows that the minute you get to it, if you know, unless you just turn on him, the minute you get to it, you're not going to want to live because you will find if I get to this goalpost without God, I'm still going to be sad, empty, right? I'm still going to have these voids and the voices are going to get worse. And you know, the the more successful you get, then the less trusting you become because now everybody's trying to get around you to get what you got. And so God in his uh his sovereignty and in the be in his beauty, what he does is he'll allow us to run that little ferris will that that race until we get to the place where we stop and we say the word of God is true. Every season starts or every season ends when when you say the word of God is true and you turn and that represents repenting. You turn and you go back to him and you start doing what he desired you to do. And that's when you start to feel you start to see those voids getting filled. >> So would you say that the same spirit that is over to cause a person to lust is that the same spirit that causes a person to commit infidelity and adultery? >> Absolutely. Absolutely. It's to desire something that you desire something that you don't or desire something that you don't have. So I have two cars by the grace of God. And you know what I found? I just got a car another car in 2025. One thing I found about the flesh, it is never satisfied ever. I don't care what you get. I'm driving two cars and I'm looking and I see cars all the time and I'll be like, I want that. I want that. I want that. I want that. That's the nature of the flesh. The flesh cannot be satisfied. But the objective is self-control, which is discipline, which is root word of disciple. It's how you become disciples is crucifying the flesh. You become a disciple of Christ by crucifying the flesh. And that that is through the discipline. the flesh. I don't care like for example when you're dealing with promiscuity. If you're dealing with male promiscuity, female promiscuity, just promiscuity period, that person can never be satisfied. They can think that if if I get married, I'll be happy. No, it doesn't happen because then you marry a human being who is, you know, flawed and they got their fallen nature and then that person is never the embodiment, the totality of what you want. It's gonna always they'll always be missing this. And like women, we try to install it into them. We'll just share a video, tag him in a video. We keep on trying to put something in because what we're trying to do is we're trying to fix that area cuz we need that from that person or we feel like we need that from that person, but what we need comes from God. It comes from the King of Kings himself. So, it's like we're always chasing that feeling, but the feeling has to be the feeling of the Holy Spirit. >> So, you mentioned people having boyfriends and girlfriends is shacking up. And I know that this is something of this realm and it's not really mentioned biblically, but do you think that we can see fruits of the Holy Spirit um when we start in a place that isn't of God? Yes, you can have fruits of the spirit come into a relationship that's built outside the will of God only if you get into the will of God and you stay there. But here's the the trick about this. The funny part is if you get into the will of God, you're probably going to lose a person that you got outside the will of God if they don't want to be inside the will of God. Uh because I tell people when people get a position of power, that's the most addictive thing you can give a person in their brokenness is to give them power. So if you give a person a position of power or control in your life, whenever you start to take them out of that seat, you're messing with that spirit of rejection in them. So when you start to take that that boyfriend and you say, "Hey, I can't sleep with you anymore. We're going to have to wait till we're married." And you start uh pulling yourself back and saying, "Hey, we need to go to church." and you stop feeding them the sin, then in many cases, they're going to lose interest in you only because the reason that they were with you was because you were feeding their sin in the first place. I've told women, you know, I've had women to bring their uh guys to me and I've said, you know, the free version of him probably wouldn't want you. The delivered version of him probably wouldn't want you. The broken version of him wants you. The demonized version of him wants you because you represent supply. There's something that you produce, something that you give that he's not getting or he can't get at that level elsewhere. He can kind of source it out. But there's something that you give or something that you represent that represents supply for him. And so if he gets free, he's probably not going to want you. That's why I tell people if you do go outside the will of God, you build a relationship with a person, y'all go into sexual sin or anything like that, can it be restored? Yes. If either both of you go and chase God to put God number one, come out of the sexual sin and make God your everything. It takes both parties to do that. If one party is willing to do it, then there's going to be a divide. One person is going to take one path, the other person going to take another path. And a house divided, whether that house be outside the the traditional house, cannot stand. It's going to be a breakup because light and darkness can't coexist. >> So you talk a little bit about how sexual sin creates soul ties. Can you please walk us through um that spiritual transaction? Anything that's inside of a person gets a gets legal access to you. So whatever that man got, you got the minute that you started messing around with him. But whatever that woman got, you now got. Now demons are not omnipresent. So it doesn't necessarily mean that his demon goes home with you. But it does have access to you, which means that it can pay you a visit whenever it wants to. Um and at the same time, it can open you up for more spirits. Um other spirits u can be some lesser spirits like rejection. Well rejection can be on a lesser level but it can be on a high level as well because in most cases whenever you get into idolatry in most cases when you get into those type of relationships they fall apart. So now you have to deal with rejection. Rejection is going to bring in insecurity. Rejection is going to say you're not good enough. Rejection is going to say that you know you didn't give enough. So you keep giving more of yourself in relationships. You'll deal with fear of abandonment. You may even start dealing with obsession. In the case of obsession, sorry. In the case of obsession, what typically happens is now you find yourself in a relationship, let's say, that is broken and the person is abusing you, mismanaging you, mistreating you. What then happens is you don't know how to let that person go. So, you learn to deal with the devil you know because it seems safer than to deal with the devil that you don't know. And the devil that a lot of people don't know is typically going to be living a life outside of the person that they're with. >> All right. So, you spoke on demon fruit. And if it's a relationship that was made outside of the will of God, and now it's now the relationship is maturing and you get married. How is it that you make sure that demon fruit is not manifest? >> You got to go back to the basics, which is what you were supposed to do before you got married, but most people don't do it. Um, and that is to seek God first. You know, that is to seek God first. That is to put God first. And you have to go on a journey of self uh crucifixion, self-surrender. And part of self-surrender is we we surrender our selfish ways. We start to eradicate the fruit of the or the works of the flesh and we begin to embrace the fruit of the spirit. Um that means that you know one of the fruit of the spirit is let's say gentleness then we become more gentle and we do that intentionally. We do that by prayer but we do that intentionality. um we start to embrace all these different fruits, you know, the the fruits of the spirit. And what that's going to do is I'm putting the fruit of the I'm putting that seed in the ground. So I may come in contact with somebody, let's say if I struggle with gentleness, I may come in contact with somebody that needs that gentleness. And at one point, whereas I would have been like, get out of the road. I get I'm giving them grace to say it. Um, if I'm dealing with, let's say, wonderful fruits of the spirit is going to be self-control and that I resist the enemy. You know, I got to constantly resist the enemy. So, the enemy may tell me, let's say if I'm married, the enemy may tell me, pack your bags and tell them you don't divorce him, right? I have to resist that. Even though it seems like a good idea, it's not a God idea in that what I'm doing is I'm trying to gain control of the situation, which means that I'm pushing God out the way cuz he not moving fast enough or he's not moving in the way I want him to move. So in this, I got to take the time out to let God be God. So I now I have to exemplify self-control. So I got to do the very thing that I don't want to do. And it's hard to do. And this is how I'm resisting the devil cuz the devil tells me you can say this, you can say that. In that I have to sit there and say, "You are a wonderful person and I love you and I thank God for you. All the great things that you bought into this household. You are amazing thing." So what I'm doing is I'm speaking to the person and not to their spirit, which makes them start to resist the spirit in them. It starts to break them because they are looking for supply in some cases. They're looking for the reaction. They're looking for the cuss out. They're looking for you to pack your bag. So in there, I'm exemplifying self-control. So what I have to do is I got to doubt myself while there. And I always say, "De yourself in marriage ain't easy because now you got to know cuz now you got the person there with you and they know your triggers. They know your buttons and they're pushing them all the time and you're pushing theirs, they're pushing yours or what have you." And so now you have to go through that process of this makes sense to me. It's easier for me to come and look this guy in his face and say you're this, you're that. Say all the negative things that I want and I can point out facts about him. >> But the truth is I got to have self-control. I got to show kindness. I I have to have self-control. I have to show kindness. And so in that in the kindness I have to sit back and say even though I want to say this to this man and I can win this fight. I always tell people some people win they win the fight but lose their marriage in that I got to resist the temptation to win the fight in that say you know what I believe I believe in you. I believe the God in you and I believe you're going to be an amazing person. You're already an amazing person. You're on a journey and all that other stuff. Is there anything you need from me? That's kindness. My flesh don't want to do that >> in that moment. My flesh want to tell that. I want to tell him off. >> I don't know who you think you're talking to because I can win the fight. I'm a woman. All right. I'm a wordssmith. I'm sensitive. So, I already know the low places to hit. All right? Cuz I'm he he he's a little higher. I know he's the head of the house. I know the low places to hit. I know how to castrate him right then and there. I got to sit there and look at the tool, throw it away, and I got to build them up. And that that's a part of dying to sell. Now, when you constantly keep doing that, especially if both parties go on their individual journeys and confession. >> Mhm. >> Baby, I ain't going to lie to you. I want to cuss you out, but I'm not doing anything like that. Confession or I felt the temptation to do this, but you know what? I need your prayer. >> Not to say that there's a mechanism of control. I need your prayer. I've even told people, I said, "If a man is even struggling with temptation to sleep with another woman, tell his wife." He ought to have a mature enough wife to say, "Babe, there's a woman in my job." And that woman, I'm not going to lie to you, is tempting. You know, I don't know what it is. It's spiritual. The Bible says the war is not against flesh and blood, but against the powers, the principalities, and the rulers of this dark world, and spiritual wickedness in high places. In that confession, his wife has to resist the temptation because he's being raw with her in that moment. And she has to say, "Okay, I I understand that, you know, I I don't like hearing that, but at the same time, let me pray for you right quick." And so in that, I'm going to pray over him. I'm going to say, "Every spirit of seduction trying to come upon my husband, I bind you in the name of Jesus Christ. I plead the blood of Jesus over him." And in that, he realized I'm a safe place. I can tell her what I can tell my boys without her getting crazy with it. I can tell her. And in that, we pray together. and he's able to avoid the trap. >> She'll she'll cover him. >> Yes. He's able to avoid the trap because the other woman could have a spirit of witchcraft in her and that's luring him. That's pulling on him and there's a door open in his life. And so she could be pulling on him. And in that when he confesses that he's saying, "I'm struggling. I'mma help me." So now I'm going to help fight. So I just sit up there and I say, "Okay, cool. I'll fight in the spirit." And I also say, "Hey, don't let her come in your office alone." From this point on, set this boundary. Bound people hate boundaries. That's where you get them to manifest. Bound people hate boundaries. Boundary. Now, people hate boundaries. Set that boundary. Solidify that boundary. Make sure you communicate that boundary. When you're at the workplace, go talk to some people so she can never accuse you and say, "Hey, listen. Go talk to some people, you know, hey, this is what's happening. I'm putting up a boundary in front of her." All of that kind of stuff. And that he just protected himself. You can bet your golly. Wow. You give it a few. It's going to be somebody else >> that if she has a spirit of seduction, she going to get to somebody else. So the objective in that in that moment is honesty. I honestly say the biggest bound thing that or the biggest thing that messes most people up is the fear of telling the truth. >> The fear of telling the truth. The fear of the consequences of telling the truth. I said I would much rather tell the truth than to fall into the trap. >> Do you think everybody is called into marriage and what are the ramifications of idolizing marriage? >> Not everybody's called to marriage. Um when it comes down to it, Apostle Paul talked about that when it comes down to it, some people are just called to ministry and their me some people's ministry is marriage. Um and then there are some people who are just called to do the will and the works of God in the earth. So not everybody's called to it. The ramifications of idolizing a spouse is that your reward for idolatry is always going to be a narcissist. Is that you will get somebody that will serve as a god that will see themselves as a god in your life. uh somebody who is going to take you further and further outside the will of God. The Bible says the blind lead the blinded will both fall into a ditch. They will lead you into a low place. Uh they'll lead you into the darkness. This is why a lot of times when it comes down to it. Um if that person is again outside the will of God, everything that is outside of God's will starts to take place in the household. Um for example, whether that be a household, it can be uh an organization or a church, you will start to see man manifestations of disease. So within a a marriage for example, anytime and marriage is just the coming together in agreement what have you, but anytime whether that's a marriage between a man and a woman, whether that is even a church, um you're going to start seeing things that start to happen within that that that unity or within that unit that should not be happening. Um because the enemy has dominion over darkness. So there could be a listener right now dealing with lust, adultery, fornication. if they're trapped in this cycle, how is it that they find a way out? Like, is it deliverance? Is it just through prayer? Is it just repentance? Is it fasting? Like, what exactly should they do? You know, people think, cuz I've had people that try to bring their boyfriends, their girlfriends, their wives, their husbands to me for deliverance because the person is living a real reckless life. And they in their mind, they think if you cast a demon out, they'll be better. And I tell them no, >> cuz the person has to come in agreement, >> right? They come in agreement. The demon didn't come in and make them bad. The demon came in cuz they were already bad. They were already in out. They were already outside the will of God. Inside the will of God is our safety. The enemy can't touch us over there. Inside the will of God. We'll have the temptations, but the temptations are outside. You can see them clearly outside, but you just know not to go out there. And you you feel the pull, but you know not to go out there. But if you go out there, if you go out and you feed that desire, that's when the demon comes in. If you do it repeatedly especially, that's when the demon comes in and the demon just makes them worse. So that person that goes out and they uh give in to the lust. They give into it one time, then they'll say, "Huh, I want to go do it again." Those stars come in, the commercials, then they go out and give it give in to it again, and then they go out and give into it again until the point where it's not it's a a choice. They made the decision to go out there, but then after that, they start to get the rewards because every sin has a reward. The reward ultimately is going to be death, but the reward can be I feel powerful. I feel wanted in this moment. I feel needed in this moment. I was married and my ex uh you know was a serial cheater. And in the end, you know, right before we broke off, we had a time of reconciliation at one point and I asked he came into the room with me. I didn't even ask him. He came into the room with me and he said, "How did you know I was cheating?" He said, "Like every time I would start talking to another woman or anything, you would know." And he said, "I will exchange uh phone numbers with a woman. I come home and you're like, who is she or what have you?" He said, "How did you know that?" He said, "It's brand me crazy." How did you know that? And my answer to him was that he would switch up. He would change. Like I he has a temperature. Everybody has a way about them that we kind of acclimate to. And when that temperature would shift, I knew somebody's interrupting. There's somebody in the midst of us that's not supposed to be here. and they're in my space because I don't get the same look that I was getting. I don't get the same interaction that I was getting. And so that's how I'm able to discern that, hey, somebody else is in my space. >> But well, let wait cuz that's a good point and I want to ask you about that because there are let's say they're the woman being cheated on, right? Let's say that their husband is committing infidelity or adultery or whatever the case may be. How is that a woman able to discern whether her husband is cheating or if she's just insecure? >> I would say 98 99% of the time if a woman suspects her husband is cheating, she's right. Because we are the most sensitive and discerning creatures that God has ever created if she discerns it. Now, you can tell this insecurity whenever um this is a pattern of her. She's done it in every relationships. Um, and she does that for the simplest things. You know, she's constantly checking his phone and he hasn't done anything to make her, you know, think that he hasn't said anything. He's not staying out late at night, he hasn't done anything, then that's when that's when you're dealing with insecurity and stuff like that. And most people suffer with insecurity to a degree. It's just once it gets on that spectrum, when you get to the middle of that spectrum becomes a problem. Everybody deals with insecurity to a degree. You know, your guy goes out, like I said, commercials play in your head. Especially if you've ever been cheated on before or if your parent was cheated on, your commercial play in your head. What if he out there doing this? He is not answering his phone. That's normal. But it becomes a thing where it's insecurity whereas he hasn't done like anything to to warrant that, right? I always say like trust. People always say trust me, trust me, trust me. I say that doesn't work. That's not how this works. When you meet a person like you don't know me, you can't trust me. that you that you don't have to distrust me, but you can't trust me. So, there's nothing there. Right now, you're getting to know me. And so, when it comes down to a relationship, I say we trust everybody that we know. >> We either trust you to do wrong or we trust you to do right. >> If you've done wrong, I trust you to keep doing wrong. So, that's going to show up and it going to look like insecurity cuz I'm like, who was that called you? Why? Why you turning your phone upside down or what have you? that if he has a pattern of doing the right thing and then I'm still accusing him of doing the wrong thing, I'm still stuck in a season that I came out of, maybe something that he did, something I experienced or what have you. But if it's a a situation where he did something wrong, um then there's going to be patterns, right, of like I said, turning the phone down, um being argumentative, cold, uh relatively distant, accusing, where were you or what have you. Cuz then he start feeling guilty. and he's going to project it cuz the wife is the mirror of the husband and the husband is a mirror of the wife. We mirror each other. Um but whatever, like I said, if it's insecurity, it's not warranted. But if it's not, if it is warranted, it's trust manifesting itself. I trust you to cheat on me again cuz you did it before. I trust you to lie to me again cuz you did it before. And that's why anytime I've counled couples in the past, I said, "Well, what's going to have to hap happen is you have to destroy the old relationship that you were building because it was built on lies." And you have to build something new and you have to earn the trust that you're asking for. You can't ask for a credit on trust. Especially if you've already showed that you don't pay back your loans and you know you got jobs now, they won't hire you cuz they'll check your credit report. What they're looking for, can we trust you? If they look at your credit report and see that you are inconsistent with paying your bills, that is a reflection of your character. They don't trust you, so they won't hire you. It's the same thing when it comes down to a relationship. If somebody has a habit of um they have a habit of cheating, lying, or what have you, you got to trust them to lie. And they they'll say you're insecure, but it's not an insecurity. It's just that I trust you. I trust you. >> I trust you to do what you always been doing. >> I trust you to do what you always been doing. Do you think that a relationship or a marriage can be restored after that? I know you said that you have to start a new relationship, but how does that happen? If the person is willing to die to themselves, they have to go to Christ. A person like I I hear this stuff, loyalty, faithful, no man, I I say this, when I get married, I would not be loyal to my husband. I would not be faithful to him. That that sounds crazy, right? But here's the thing. My fa faithful comes from the word faith. My faithfulness belongs to God. It doesn't belong to man. If I'm loyal to a person, then if God tells me to let them go, I'm going to go into idolatry. The minute I don't let him go, because then I go into loyalty culture. I want So if I'm faithful to God, by default, my husband has a faithful wife, which means he'll never have to worry about me cheating on him because what I'm doing is I've dedicated myself to the most high God. I fear God. I love God. And so I've surrendered myself to God before he came into the picture. But and so that means when he does come into the picture, he never has to worry about me doing anything because my love for God supersedes my love for him. However, if I'm loyal to him and he keeps on hurting me, I'm a mirror. He keeps on hurting me, then what ends up happening? He'll start to break me. And if I don't have anything to fall back on but my fallen nature, then something may materialize in what I see. I may start mirroring what he's doing to me in an attempt to, you know, to fix myself in an attempt to feel better. So loyalty, loyalty, and I I know there's this big loyalty thing. Loyalty belongs to him. If I'm loyal to him, if I tell people, I say, "You will love me until I find your idol." I said that every person in my life, I said, "You'll love me till I find your idol." Because I tell people, I said, "I'm not loyal to people. I'm loyal to God." And everybody that has me in their life, they got a loyal sister, loyal friend, they got they ain't got to worry about me being behind their back doing none of that stuff, but I'm loyal to God. But if they wander outside the will of God, I love them enough to say, "What's that? Why are you doing that?" What? No. And if they continue outside the will of God and they make it really clear that they want to chase that sin and what have you. Two can only walk together. They agreed. >> So I can't walk with them anymore. And that what's going to happen is there's going to be divide, >> right? There's going to be a divide cuz I'm >> I'm in alignment with what they doing. >> That's right. I'm going to keep chasing God. So my because my loyalty belongs to him. He he owns the trademark, the patent, the copyright to my loyalty to my faithful to my faithfulness. Which is why, like I said, I've been single and absent 12 years, going on 12 years this month, right? Because my faithfulness belongs to him. So that means that when I do get married, I don't have, he doesn't have to worry about me wandering out there because my faithfulness and my loyalty belongs to him. And if he goes out, if I'm married, he goes outside the will of God, my faithfulness still belongs to God. So I have to keep chasing God, try to win him with my behavior, which is what the word says. And if he wants to be one, praise the Lord. If you don't want to be one, the Bible said if the unbeliever want to depart, let them depart. In that what God is saying, if the blind lead the blind, they will both fall into a ditch. You don't fall, you don't follow somebody into a ditch. In that, God is saying, "Keep chasing me. Your job, your assignment is to stay on the path behind God. And on that path, you have wins and you'll have losses. And whenever you're dealing with adultery, that person has chosen an alternative path. They've chosen a path to go outside the will of God. And a lot of times what they try to do is, this is what the Bible says, a double-minded man that's unstable in all their ways. They're constantly trying to get back on the path. Um, and when they're going from one path to the other, what they do is they break their brain. And in that, what they start to do is they start to lose the health of their mind. They start to become unstable. Um, they start to become doubleminded. They start to become lukewarm. And that starts to show up in their actions because again now you start to form uh you start to form like obsessions and stuff like that and consequently that person can't be trusted because God can't trust him or God can trust him to do wrong but he can't trust him to do the right thing. What would you say to a wife who um is praying and she's fasting and she's asking for deliverance for her husband but her husband keeps cheating or vice versa her her his wife keeps cheating? Would you say that there is something in standing in faith opposed to enabling sin? >> Chase God with everything in your f in your being. it. The thing is divorce I think we look at the act of divorce you know filing for divorce but divorce happens um a house divided can't stand you know that divided we got the prefix DIV is the same prefix of divorce a house divided can't stand so if I'm chasing God if I'm going after him and let's say if my spouse is not going after him our house is going to divide and in that if I keep going after him my job is never to go after the spouse ever my job is to go after God is to win the spouse with my behavior keep loving God. Keep erecting God, exalting God, and dying to myself. Because every ounce of me that is not dead, my spouse, my spouse is going to make me feel it. Because when they're outside the will of God, I can feel the anger. I can feel whatever. I feel like I want to throw a toaster oven at them. I want to set them on fire. I want to do something, you know? I can feel all those things. When I feel it, I'm supposed to go before God and say, "God, this is how I feel. I I need to do this." And yet, God gives me instruction. And he said, "There's safety in the Moses who the counselor. So, you have wise counsel." So in the midst of all of that, if I keep on that path, God says, "You can win them with your behavior." So in that, what I'm doing is I'm dying to myself so that my spouse can see, you know, what Jesus looks like materialize like cuz I'm not allowing Jesus to move through me. If, and it doesn't mean that the spouse is going to get right because in that I always say people sometimes marry demonically. And what I mean by that is when I got married, the demon in me was interested in the demon that was in him. The demon I had was interested in the demon that was in him. But when I got rid of the demon, his demon became a widow. He essentially became a widow because I I started dying to myself in that relationship. So what attracted to him to me was gone, right? Because I'm I'm I'm getting this why God He says, "Seek you first the kingdom of God." Cuz God knows we typically marry as babes, but we're going to grow up at some point. And the adult version of you may not be what your spouse is attracted to. You got some guys that don't like the church woman. All that the thou, hallelujah, glory to your name. But at some point, you may become that church woman. And so the thing about it is the objective is to stay on the path of God. To keep chasing God, to keep making him number one. And that is I, you know, I'm show honor, show respect to my spouse, love on my spouse, do whatever I can. I'm interceding. I'm having a conversation with them. I'm doing everything. But I refuse to remove myself from the path of God. Cuz there's a temptation. I can tell you haven't been married to a cheater. There's a temptation to get them to understand how how much what you're doing hurts me. And if I keep articulating it and you don't want to understand it, then I'm going to go do something so that you can feel what I feel and then I think you'll understand it. But that's going on the wrong path. The objective is to stay on the righteous path and keep chasing God. And that God will bring the spouse encounters whether it's the wife or the husband. They'll start having encounters. He will start dealing with them. He'll deal with them in their dreams. He'll start dealing with them. He'll bring people into their life to speak life into them. If they don't surrender to him, the voice is inevitable because God is going to claim you, which means that God is going to continue to shine through you, keep growing you, and the light of God will continue to shine from you. And so, consequently, the spouse, the Bible said, submit yourself to God, resist the devil, and he will flee from you. >> People got the devil, they are going to flee at some point because your light becomes too bright. It becomes too much to endure in a house. So consequently, they're going to get up and go. So the objective is to stay out of idolatry is you don't run to a divorce. You don't I mean unless it's abusive or you got a repeated cheater in cases like that. Yeah. I'd be like, "Okay, you know, it's clear this person is not trying to get themselves right." However, if uh the unbeliever if the unbeliever says, "I want to be here. I want to work this out or what have you," the Bible tells you to work it out. Now, not with cheating, though. Cuz cheating gives you the right to leave that person. gives a re legal right to divorce that person. So, it's totally up to you. But the objective is to stay on the righteous path chasing out after God, making him your number one. If you have a cheating spouse, you can bet your by golly, wow, they have a God complex. They have they're contending with God, their problem is not you. Their problem is always going to be them wanting God's seat, even in your life. And God's going to take his seat. You never give them his seat. And in that, like I said, if the unbeliever want a part, the Bible says you got to let them go. But if not, you can win them with their behavior. At some point, they'll say, you have shown me, you have been the uh exemplification of the Proverbs 31 woman. And I want that. You know, I want that. I see you. I love you. Because they've had an encounter with God. And then God opens their eyes and he reveals a mystery that is you. Cuz God, he said, he who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor of the Lord. I tell people every time people get married, they didn't necessarily find a wife. Some people just get married, you know, um they find you in your state where you haven't gotten to that state yet, God will still hide you when you get married. If you marry somebody that is blind to the things of God, they can't see you either. So no matter what you do, you can you can cook clean, what have you, it's never going to be seen because the first thing that God wants them to see is him. It's like a duck. If it sees a lion, the first thing a baby duck is gonna follow the lion. It's going to assume this is my parent and put itself in danger. And so what God does, he knows the first thing we see is usually what we worship. So if you get with somebody who eyes are closed, they got scales in their eyes. God will keep them blind until they seek him. Until that's why he said, "Draw n to me and I'll draw down to you." Once he starts to open their eyes and they're able to see you, in the meantime, they'll hear you, but they can't see you. they'll hear you and it can become annoying because they'll hear you but they don't see they don't see the things that you're doing. They don't see uh the effort you're putting in because in that God's not going to let them see you until they see him. >> So if somebody is cheating and it becomes persistent and it's something that they've prayed for deliverance but they haven't um would you say that that's a spiritual attack and a demon or is it an uncrified flesh and a discipline issue? It's a discipline issue. Um the first is it's it's a demon but it's a discipline issue. If we get rid of the demon and we don't get into the discipline, the demon comes back seven times worse because it's a thing where the person has an ungodly desire. The demon didn't give him the desire. It just made it just enhanced it. So for that particular person and I've counseledled I've counseledled both men and women who struggle with that. Um and my thing to them is I said you got to have to get to that space where you love God enough to chase him. That's why he said, "Well, taste and see that the Lord is good." But I always tell them, I recommend Christian therapy to deal with the root of the issue. Sometimes there's a root there. Um to deal with the root of the issue, to deal with the childhood wounds, to deal with the rejection, but also to look into the power dynamic. You got to also look in to you have to ask yourself raw questions like what is it that I really want? Cuz most people are not honest with themselves. Sometimes what they really want is just to be seen, heard, and understood. But that doesn't mean they want to be seen, heard, and understood in a good way. Cuz I've had people that I've spoken with, and they like, "I feel like you're not hearing me." I was hearing them, but what they were saying is they want to be in control. That some they have to learn they can't compete with God. Satan will always say, "You can be like God, right? You can be like God. You have to give God his seat." And that you can't be you can't allow yourself to sit there and say it's like Satan was accused or Satan was guilty of trafficking. And what what was he trafficking? He was a high ranking angel. Right? When you're dealing with rank, you're dealing with information. That means somebody that has higher rank has more information. Satan had more information. Lucifer had more information than angels of a lower rank. What is he doing? He's giving that information out in exchange for something. he's giving it out. Whenever a person gets into that space where they're constantly giving in, there's something that they want. And I say, find it. Find it. And sometimes it's going to take therapy to do it. Sometimes it just take that wrong conversation with yourself. Like for me, I realize that I can ask myself a question. And I start realizing that I can be dishonest with myself, you know, and I and what have you. So, I've learned to push that question and push that question until the truth comes out, until I really say what I want. And they got to be able to say, to be honest with you, I think the desire for a lot of people is to be God, is to have access to the wealth, the power, uh, all of the women and all the men, all of the things that they want. And they think that that's going to make them feel good. But I always say it's the nature of the fallen man, but it's also that spirit. When that spirit comes in, it's going to make them lust for power. Cuz when a demon comes in, it's going to make them more power. is going to want to make them, it's going to make them want control. It's going to want them to feel like, "Look at what I can do. Look at how I can manipulate everybody. Look at how I can get over." That's what their spirit going to come in. But the fallen man is trying to fix himself. The fallen man is trying to fill the void. So, I always say the void belongs to God. It is always God-sized. You got to fill the void with the information of God, which is the word of God. You got to admit that this is what I'm struggling with. stop candy coating it and and glazing over it and say this is what I'm struggling with. Um, at the same time, you got to you have to go to the core of it. One thing I found most of the times when I've counsel couples, for example, when the if the guy doesn't get free, the woman doesn't get free, it's because they're not totally honest. They're not totally honest. They will tell you what you want to hear or they'll tell you what they want you to hear. But I say in order to get free, you got to go to the dirty details that you shame. You got to go. This is the part of you that God is calling die to crucify. Is that stuff that's in the darkness, you got to bring it to the light. Who is God? God is light. You take that stuff out the darkness and say, "This is what I like. This is what I want. This is what I feel." And then God shows you the core because everything has a core. Everything has a foundation. Everything has a root. God shows you the core of it in the majority of the cases. The core of it is I want to be God. I want the core of it is I felt out of control at some point in my life. I want to be in control of my life. I don't trust nobody to be in control. I don't trust anybody to lead me. I don't trust anybody to be faithful to me. I don't trust but I do trust me. And I feel like if I get all these things, nobody can ever hurt me, can you? if I have the wealth, if I have the access to everything, nobody could ever hurt me again. So, they have to get to the root of that. But at the same time, you have those who become deviants in it. Whereas now is it it go beyond just trying to fix the person. It it gets into getting into God's supply, what belongs to God. when you taste the forbidden thing, what you weren't supposed to taste, and you start wanting it, and that's when it becomes sinister. And this is when the person becomes adversary. That's when it becomes Satan. Um, in that they they're no longer Lucifer wanting to exalt and be like God, Satan, adversary, because now I've tasted it and forget I want it. I I I want that. I I want to be able to do what I want to do, and I don't understand why I can't. And a lot of times what people do is they start to say things like, "I'm not a bad person. I go to church." You know, I I've done this and I've done that. And they start to think about all the things that they have done for the kingdom and and they start thinking, "Well, that entitles me to what I want." It doesn't. It doesn't, you know, because if I go out and win 550 million souls tomorrow, that doesn't entitle me to heaven, you know. um I have to follow the will and the word of God. But if a person goes into that space where they're thinking, oh, when they get to that place of Satan, they become an adversary in that. That's when they start contending with God. And a person contending with God is typically, hate to say it, in many cases turned over to a reind that person compartmentalized, >> right? In that they're able to say, "I'm not a bad person." I always say that's a sinner's national anthem, right? is like God knows my heart as a center's national anthem. I'm a good person. I'm this. I'm that. That's how Lucifer talks. I'm this. I'm that. And that's when entitlement comes in. If I feel like if I'm doing this, if I've helped this organization make $550 million, you shouldn't be mad if I if I stole $2.5 million of it. I would be mad because it's still my money. It still belongs to me. And so in that when a person becomes Satan, they touch the forbidden thing. That's when they start messing. And a lot of times like with the enemy, the enemy I've noticed like when when it comes to perversion, me coming from a perverted family, perverted background, I've noticed the patterns of the enemy, the pattern of the enemy looks like this. It can start off as sexual sin, but it's going to go more into deviency over the course of time. If you find a person that's a freak, it's just a matter of time. If I will say this, I say, for example, if you get a man who's incredibly promiscuous, that's just constantly going out there sleeping around, sleeping around, sleeping around, it's only a matter of time before you want to sleep with a man, he'll never say it, but it's only a matter of time because perversion doesn't care. It doesn't care about gender. It doesn't care. That same man may start to look at children at some point that that's that runs in my family. May start to look at children maybe go into beastiality because perversion, if you feed it, it's going to grow. It gets darker and gets darker and darker, but there's shame around it. So, I always say the thing about it is the mind has to be transformed because if not, that person is going to go further and further. And like I said, at some point, it becomes Satan because it's like I well, I like it. I don't I don't understand why I can't have that. >> And so, in there, they're no longer walking with God cuz you can only walk with him when you agree with him. Now, they're deviating, which means they're adverse to a God. So like if we're walking together, you and I we're walking in a certain direction. But if I turn to face you now, I'm adversary because in there I'm contending with what you're building. I'm contending with what you're doing. And if I say, well, I feel like it ain't that bad because and I go to highlighting what I've done. That's pride. I go to highlighting what I've done cuz now I'm saying I'm entitled to this. I'm not a bad person. You've seen all the stuff I've done. I'm entitled to this. And in that, that's when Satan comes in. This is when you're dealing with a higher ranking spirit and that's where Satan comes in and that's when you're going to have a strong Leviathan spirit. You have all of that cuz Leviathan you can't get air through them. Right? The Bible talks the scales are so close together there's no air going to go in there and that the person be begins to contend with God. Meaning they become an enemy of God um in there because they've touched and forbidding for correction right there's no room for correction. And in there they're going to just keep arguing with you. You know, I've done uh counseling with people and I've done corrections with people and I'll say something and they just continue and I stop because in the midst of me saying I say, "Hey, don't do that. That's not good." Well, I don't understand. I say, "Okay, let me educate you on this." But what but when I keep hearing the conjunction, I keep hearing the butt. I end the conversation. I say, "Okay." Because in there, I know the Bible says, "Don't cast your pearls to swine unless they turn around, meaning they're going to attack you." And you can hear the elevation of their voice that they're about to attack. In that I know I've learned don't I can't say anything else to the person about it because it's going to turn into a fight which gonna lead me in pride. So in that I've learned pray for him and keep going. Pray for him. Let them be in the sin. Apostle Paul said turn over such a one of Satan. You know when this man got so deviant that he was simple with his father's wife. Turn over s one of Satan for the destruction of their flesh so that they will be saved. So some people they got to go through hell and some people got to be demonized. Some people got to go through all of that because they will fight with God, contend with God, war with God about what they want and they get turned over to the enemy. But when they get turned over in this God said turn over one such a one well Apostle Paul said turn over such a one to Satan. So the destruction of their flesh they in many cases begin to call on the name of God because sin has repercussions. You know the wages of sin is death. But it's not just death to the body, but it's also death to relationships. It's death to uh peace. It's death to a lot of things. Which is why you'll notice that people that get into sexual perversion, they always deal with addiction. You will never find a person that goes deep into perversion that's not dealing with some type of addiction ever. You're going to always find them addicted to drugs, addicted to alcohol. You're going to find addiction cuz and then again eventually rebellion is as is as the sin of witchcraft. Eventually, you're gonna find them going deeper into uh witchcraft. You'll find them starting to get into witchcraft practices and stuff like that because it's like once you break something, I need something to fix it with. And Satan going to offer me another fix. So, if I sit up here, if I go into fornication, that's going to break something in me cuz I was the body was not designed for fornication. It'll break something in me. So, that thing that's broken is going to torment me. And then Satan says, "Hey, well, you could come do this and it'll make you feel better." So then I may try hookah. I may try marijuana just to get me a little bit of relief from it. And then it makes me feel good. And I get a false sense of joy. Notice that everything that's outside the will of God is the false representation of fruit of the spirit, right? And wherever with the fruit of the spirit is joy. One of the fruit of the spirit is joy. Over in addiction, you have happiness, right? You have happy hour. You have a moment where I can do something that I want to do and I feel better. I feel better, but I got to sober up at some point. And when I sober up, I'm left to face the demons. I'm left to face the dread, the the the the the repercussions of my actions. I'm left to face that, which brings deeper depression, which makes you go deeper into sin. Then I need a greater fix. At some point, the hookah ain't going to be enough. At some point, the heroin ain't going to be enough. At some point, I got to go get something else because I'm constantly breaking myself. It's very similar. We talked earlier about food. It's very similar to food. If I'm eating something bad, I'm going to have to take some medicine to fix the damage I'm doing in my body because high blood pressure, cholesterol, diabetes, all these things start to materialize themselves. If I'm constantly eating it, I'm breaking me while pleasuring me at the same time. So now I got to go out there and I got to get something to try to fix it. And so the doctors are going to give me medicine to try to It's not even fixing it. It's to treat it. >> It's to treat it. But because I'm dealing with the addiction, I'm going still go out and do it again. I'm just going to take the high blood pressure medication once I'm finished. And that's what uh addiction looks like. Well, that's what sin looks like is that you'll go feed it. You'll keep being hungry for it. And then you're going to keep finding ways to fix it. And in your attempt to fix it, you going to break yourself more cuz you got to go deeper into sin. You go deeper into sin. So a man cheating with one woman eventually starts cheating with two because the two that one ain't enough the two ain't enough. Then eventually three, eventually four. That's sexual curio curiosity. Eventually fine over the course of time like I said there going to be other desires, other uh illicit desires because you're dealing with a spirit. That man can be a thousand% strong masculine even leviathan heterosexual. You know I wouldn't do nothing like that or what have you. But at the end of the day, if he's a slave to lust, you don't get to tell lust how to act. Lust going to tell you how to act. He can fight it, but at some point lust going to keep on pulling on. >> For anybody that doesn't know who Leviathan is, can you explain it? >> He is the king of the power according to the book of Job. He is u a marine spirit that the Bible says he he's got scales that they're so close together that even air can't get through them. So it's like even words can't get through them cuz when we're talking, we're releasing air. So you can say to a person you need to stop this or what have you. He is a covenant breaking spirit. He is a spirit of pride. So whenever you're dealing with a person with a Leviathan spirit, everything is offensive. One of the spirits that Leviathan >> Yes. He work one of his spirits that he works with him is offense. Inability to hear. So if I'm talking to somebody has Leviathan, I'm saying one thing, they hear another. I I say, "Hey, um sis, did you uh hey, did you see uh did you see my shoes in the car?" Ain't nobody trying to steal your shoes. >> And I'm like, "No, no, no. You were in a car. I couldn't find them. I don't know if I put them in the car." "No, you just in the I'm just saying. Ain't nobody trying to steal your shoes. I don't even wear your size." You're saying one thing, they hear enough. >> Something else, >> right? Cuz what Leviathan does is he sticks in the ears and he twist. >> He twist. So everything is defined by Leviathan. He becomes a filter before it gets to their heart. He is a guarding spirit who guards the heart. The Bible says, "Guard the heart for out of it are are the issues of life." Somebody was a Leviathan spirit. It makes sure no air can get through because God say you know the truth and the truth will set you free. Well, it makes sure the truth can't get through. Cuz if you're telling the person the truth, they hear something else. If you say, "Hey sis," or you say, "Hey, you need deliverance." So you saying, "I'm a demon." You say, "I got a demon." Yeah, but I'm not saying that means you're bad. It means that it could have came in through your childhood. It could have came in through this way. It could have came in through that way. Not saying you bad. We all had to go through our rounds of deliverance. But somebody was a Leviathan spirit, that demon is job is to make sure that they cannot get free cuz they can't hear the truth. And if you try to get the truth to them, offense is going to arise and they're going to they're going to twist your words. They're going to be like, "Well, you said, uh, well, no, let's go back to what you said. Uh, uh, what you go back to what you said so you can say something in the conversation and they'll get stuck on a point that you made 88 sentences ago." >> And they won't even hear you anymore. >> No, they're just stuck on that one. They stuck on that one thing and they they so wrapped up in their response to what you actually said >> and they're going to want to go back and they're going to hold that and and in that they're going to be the victim from that one thing you said even though you're saying I saw you on camera taking $500 from me. You were on camera taking the money and you they'll say so you didn't trust me in the first place. That's what I knew that you got them cameras. Why did you get them cameras? So, so you got cameras up in here and so you didn't trust me in the first place. See that? Amen. They become the victim >> and you like, "No, I'm talking about the fact that No, no, no. Let's talk about that. Okay, you know what? I tell you what, you ain't got to worry about me cuz you didn't trust me in the first place." >> So in there, they become the victim because Leviathan is always got to be the winner of the conversation, which is why he's a covenant breaking spirit because over the course of time, he's likened to an alligator. An alligator, one of the ways it kills his prey is it gets your limb and it flips. It starts to twist until it breaks you apart. And that's how it breaks up marriages, it breaks up friendship, it breaks up, it breaks up churches, it breaks it all. What it does is it twist. >> So no matter what you say to the person, they >> filter, >> twist, >> twist it, >> twist. >> They don't have ears to ear. And in that once you recognize they don't have ears to ear, you can't say anything because you're casting your pearls to swine at that point. So the only thing that you can do is you have to pray for them. Lord, deliver them. Set them free. And you got to start dealing with God about their heart. And in many cases, God will give them encounters and what have you. God will allow them to go through some stuff to soften their heart um so that the truth can come through. So sometimes he'll bring somebody, one man plants another water says God who gives an increase. He'll bring somebody to say something to have a moment. Sometimes it's just like a snapshot of a moment. This is the way of escape that they get a moment where the truth gets in and they're like, "Oh man, I didn't realize I was doing that." >> And in that moment, they can get free. in that moment they can say, "I don't want this no more. This got to go out of me." And that's how God gets them. >> Because I do feel like there are a lot of people that can be dealing with something behind the scenes and behind the screen and behind listening to us that they're wrestling with, but they don't necessarily know how to be delivered from it. So, I want to say thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Tell people how they can find you. >> Tiffany.com or follow me on Instagram at anointed fire or even on YouTube at anointed fire official. Now you guys, I know for some this could have been a very uncomfortable conversation and for others it could have been enlightening. I think that if it challenged you, good. If it comforted you, lean into that. I think that this conversation wasn't really about condemnation, but transformation. So if this blessed you, make sure you share it with somebody else. And as always, stay initiated.

TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Promiscuity and Emptiness 01:11 Welcome and Topic Setup 01:57 What Lust Really Is 03:08 Eden and the Flesh War 06:18 How to Wait Practically 07:56 Music Culture and Spells 11:06 Fornication as Witchcraft 13:11 Idolatry and Fast Food Faith 15:49 Repentance and Feeding Demons 23:05 Why the Flesh Never Satisfies 24:45 Can Ungodly Relationships Change 26:55 Soul Ties and Spirit Spouses 29:17 Restoring Marriage Through Fruit 33:29 Confession Boundaries and Temptation 35:36 Idolizing Marriage and Its Cost 36:14 Darkness Invites Disorder 37:01 Escaping Lust Cycles 38:37 Cheating Signs and Discernment 39:42 Insecurity vs Intuition 42:25 Rebuilding Trust After Betrayal 43:26 Loyalty to God First 47:17 Standing in Faith Not Enabling 53:31 Discipline and Root Causes 01:00:28 Perversion Escalation and Addiction 01:07:26 Leviathan Spirit Explained 01:10:52 Praying for Breakthrough 01:11:32 Final Takeaways and Where to Find You were told “just stop”… but nobody explained what’s really happening when desire feels stronger than conviction. In this episode, we go deeper than behavior and expose what keeps lust, fornication, adultery, and infidelity on repeat: the unseen trade for comfort, control, and “power,” the way music and imagination fuel the cycle, and why the flesh is never satisfied. If you have ever said “I know it’s wrong, but I still want it,” this conversation might be the wake-up call that finally helps you break free. Host Jessica Laine-MacDonald: https://www.instagram.com/itsjessicalaine/ Renew The Mind Journal: https://www.hardlyinitiated.com/products/renew-the-mind-journal Fight The Flesh Bracelet: https://www.hardlyinitiated.com/products/fight-the-flesh-bracelet Hardly In Love Dating Cards: https://www.hardlyinitiated.com/products/dating-deck Apply for Teach The Game Thursdays: https://forms.gle/b3mxsAhMd6hx4AnN9