Bitcoin Is Just Getting Started (Most People Don’t See It Yet)

Whereas Bitcoin rewards value. It's a slow process, but look how far we've come in 15 years. 15 years ago this week, Bitcoin was $1. >> When I got into Bitcoin and when I explained Bitcoin to you, look, when you own this asset, you are sovereign. You know, it took a 100red years for running water water to go from being a possibility to being ubiquitous in houses. I see this as a multi-deade trend and I think we're just getting started. When we uh when we decided to do this, I was trying to think about uh what should the title of this panel be? And uh the thing we came up with that I think just embodies all three of you in different ways is like Bitcoiners versus the world. I feel like uh all four of us, frankly, on a day-to-day basis, you hear uh Bitcoin is dumb, Bitcoin doesn't work, Bitcoin's going down, all all like the normal stuff. And that comes from like the Twitter verse. Then you got to deal with the smart people who are like Bitcoin has no intrinsic value, Bitcoin is this, Bitcoin is that. I feel like this is uh brothers and sisters in arms up here of pushing back and saying, you know, hey, everyone calm down. Uh Russ, maybe let's start with you. You were the first professional athlete to really, I think, advocate for getting paid in Bitcoin. Um it's one thing for, you know, anonymous accounts on Twitter to say it as an NFL player to say it. I think people are like, "Oh, hold on a second. Is he crazy or, you know, is this going to catch on?" Just talk us through a little bit as to, you know, that experience, what people were saying, and how you guys kind of uh navigated it. >> Oh, no problem. And uh definitely crazy, right? I'm not going to dismiss that at all. Uh I think the best way to think about sports is and often times particularly after the Super Bowl, we're very enamored with the game itself. But often times we miss, right, the men, the the women, the people, right, that actually involved into the sport, you know, and if you think about it, football essentially is a game of percentages, right? So, you know, imagine you are 10 years old and you have displayed exceptional talent, right? And uh you then uh start playing football, right? And then you move on to the high school level. That means out of all of the people who played right and picked up in a helmet, you are 1% of people who have made it to the high school level. And then subsequently, if you want to make it to the collegiate level, it's essentially the same thing. You become 1% of all people who have went from the high school level to the collegiate. And then even on the elite level, it's the same type of percentage that exists there. Now, when you finally make it to the NFL, all right, and you are you think you're living your dream, you hear another stat which says, well, 70% of all athletes will likely be broke, if not go through some form of divorce. And it's uh very difficult and maybe perhaps I'm telling my story here uh because you have done everything right to make to this level. you've essentially beat all the odds and you're looking at a very high likelihood, a very high probability where you will most likely be broke. So, what do you do? What do you do with this information? On one end, you have a series of financial advisors who, by the way, have never actually seen a check as as large as you have, right? That are telling you how to invest your money. You have uh an agent who is, you know, they want their percentage. And then you have family who, by the way, you're very love that they need loans. They need to be taken care of. So what do you do? What do you do with this information? What do you do when you've committed your whole life to a craft and now you're faced with the reality that your blood, your sweat, and your tears cannot help you use the brute force on the field or on the court right in the economic realm. And when I really connected with Bitcoin and uh Pom, I'm going to give you a little shout out here. I was actually listening to one of your podcasts around the time that I I ended up sharing with one of my teammates is it said Bitcoin is time and it was a very important line for me because I had spent so much time trading my my health for wealth and uh when you do that much trades you tend to forget you tend to forget that uh one day right you likely may not have the opportunity to enjoy your wealth right or which is really health at the end of the day, you know. So, um when I saw Bitcoin, it was crazy how simple how simple it was just to buy self custody and hold your Bitcoin, right? And that you could change the trajectory of your entire lives. And that's what I've tried to share with many of my teammates, people I respect and uh and trust. >> I think you've done a pretty good job. Uh Natalie, you came at this from a different angle. I think that uh your family has a very unique story. You guys uh immigrated to this country. Uh you were working in the media. News flash, the media has not been very kind to Bitcoin over the years. >> They're loving it this week. >> Yeah, they Yeah, they do like it when it goes down. Then they are Bitcoin's friend. Um but you actually not only I think uh kind of got orange pill, became a Bitcoin believer, but also then got the confidence to leave your job and really kind of go on your own um and do the things that you thought uh you that you were going to enjoy most. So talk about how kind of Bitcoin coming from an angle of every single one of your colleagues was probably advocating for the exact opposite of the conclusion that you came to. >> Yeah. But I want to start I guess kind of earlier than that to your point. I mean I think my family's background and my story of financial loss at a young age really um informed and shaped me in so many ways. And we're so fortunate here in the west to look at Bitcoin only from, you know, a price angle because I think so many times about how if Bitcoin existed when my parents were growing up under communism, they could have converted any money that they had saved into Bitcoin and they would have been able to flee with it and instead they could only bring whatever they could fit in two suitcases after waiting decades to be able to come here to start over and pursue the American dream, not having any guarantee. of what would happen and then to watch them work so hard and when I went off to college have the great financial crisis hit and have them lose everything and see the rug pulled out from under you and the bankers get bailed out on Wall Street. That's why I'm a Bitcoiner because it fixes a system that's so broken that incentivizes the worst of I think um human behavior. Whereas Bitcoin rewards value and it's it's a slow process, but look how far we've come in 15 years. 15 years ago this week, Bitcoin was $1 and now it's trading in the 60,000s. It's gone all the way up to 126,000. We have to zoom out a little bit. I'm not discouraged. And of course in the media they're loving it this week. Right now they're talking about how it's dead. They're bringing on all the Bitcoin bears. But I think the hard work happens now where we get to educate people. They get to accumulate and come in at a lower cost basis and tell them how how important this is as not just number go up but as a freedom technology for all of us. Because gold okay it's got some great features but it has a central flaw which means it's physical. You can't transport it. I can't send my golden bar across the world in a matter of seconds and have it settle. And that's why it doesn't represent freedom. Bitcoin is freedom money at any price. >> Bill, uh I think you came at it from an even different angle, which is you have a very strong training in traditional finance and you really understand uh probably more so than almost anyone in this room. If I sat down with you and we looked at a company, you would start talking about, you know, cash flow analysis and assets and enterprise value and all the things that go into analyzing uh a business, you're one of the most hardcore Bitcoin believers I know. Um, talk about this almost dichotomy, right, of you understand the traditional world and maybe all the critiques that somebody would have of Bitcoin yet still come to the same conclusion as, you know, Natalie Ross or myself. Yeah, I think it comes down to just understanding at the fundamental level what capital is, what it should be, how we account for it. And then when you just think about what Natalie was saying a second ago about gold and how Bitcoin is a vastly superior technology to gold, even though it hasn't correlated with gold over the past year or so, that's where all the opportunity is. um it's more liquid, it's verifiable, it's auditable, uh it's harder to steal, um and it's much more scarce on a supply curve basis. So, um it's understanding what we're trying to do fundamentally with the money, but it's also thinking about value in a flexible way. And just because everyone hasn't come around to the same view that we have yet, doesn't mean that they won't. I mean, you look at what happened over the past 15 years to go from a dollar to now it's $66,000. I mean there's enormous uh signaling value in markets and in free markets and so you know it took a 100red years for running water water to go from being a possibility to being ubiquitous in houses and so I see this as a multi-deade trend and I think we're just getting started >> now each one of you I think in your own unique way um if I was to say you're a Bitcoiner you have a very specific kind of worldview maybe a distrust of certain institutions organizations etc but also there is this deep loyalty and you know kind of family uh driven approach to life in general and you know rush you were talking about kind of health is time and and wealth is time etc. Um but I think each one of you in a very unique way think a lot about uh a long-term impact both on your families on yourselves. Uh but it seems that the Bitcoiner mindset seeps into other aspects of your life right you know I I think the journey that you've gone on like I don't know if you go on that journey if you don't start thinking about Bitcoin right I mean you tell me but can each of you kind of just talk about like the Bitcoiner mindset outside of just the financial portfolio component? >> Yeah. Yeah I I can uh definitely try to take a swing at that. So, I I think um I think the best way that I've really tried to navigate this and um maybe I can share a phone call that I received this past week as the Bitcoin price rolled down. It's always very frustrating, right? And it's not frustrating for the points in, you know, in regards to just the price, but it's frustrating because look, Wall Street is going to do what Wall Street does, right? So to expect anything would happen that separate of derivatives and financial products being built on top of Bitcoin is is just like mindblowing. But I remember receiving a call from one of my friends and you know he's worried about what the price is going to do and and I'm I'm I'm mad at him cuz I'm just like look have I not expressed to you what Bitcoin is, right? Look at it from this perspective. Do you own Bitcoin or does the price of Bitcoin own you? Because at the end of the day, right, when I got into Bitcoin and when I explained Bitcoin to you is to say, look, when you own this asset, you are sovereign. You are sovereign. That means it's not just about, hey, I can take this Bitcoin into self-custody, but now I need to exhibit levels of self-control over my entire life and my portfolio. These two things work together, right? And you know, whether it's my emotional sovereignty, my personal sovereignty, or even how I look at my family, right? Bitcoin is legitimately set us apart where now I can think long term. Now I want more time with my kids. So now I think about my health in different ways. I I want them to have a a very independent and first principled way in which they look at education. So now we we homeschool our kids, right? But we look at things in such a different way for the points you made pal because now with Bitcoin we can take a step back and we can actually evaluate and look at our lives which to me that's the point. That's the point. That's what Bitcoin it gives you. It gives you time. Why do you need time? Because we need to reflect. We need to think about our situation. We need to observe ourselves. Right? So, Bitcoin has certainly allowed me to do that in a world where which was complete doggy dog and I could have just kept playing and and doing things forever and been on the hamster for my entire life, you know. So, I'm very grateful for Bitcoin in that way. >> Today's episode is brought to you by Simple Mining. Bitcoin mining has a reputation for being complicated, risky, and hard to evaluate as a real investment. 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Arch Public provides everyone, yes, everyone, with hands-on, dedicated support from their concierge team to help implement the strategy that you choose. As a preferred trading partner of Coinbase, Kraken, Robin Hood, and Gemini, Arch Public offers a proven track record of security and performance so that you can trade with confidence. Sign up today at archpub.com and start your automated trading strategy for free. No catch, no hidden fees, just smarter trading. Your crypto, your exchange, your profits. Archub. Go to archpub.com and tell them I sent you. >> Natalie, >> Bitcoin restored hope for me. And I think hope is the most important motivating force in economics. And I think it also encourages people to restore a sense of agency. Uh one of the things that makes me the most disappointed when I look out at our social circumstances right now is just how so many people have absolved themselves of responsibility and they're looking they're crying out for someone to come save them. Whether that's the government or whoever, they are no longer sovereign and they no longer have hope. hope. And I think a lot of it is rooted in that feeling, that feeling of frustration that I I played all the rules. I played them the the right way. I I followed them. I did the school. I got the good degree. I worked hard. I'm putting in extra hours. I got the side job and I still can't afford what my parents or my grandparents could on the same income. And I think that that changes people and it makes them feel frustrated. All of a sudden, they're encouraged to compare their themselves and their lives with others that are doing much better. And of course with social media, it's very easy to see people that are on on the surface look, they're doing great. They own all the assets. They're happy. But if we look deeper, I mean, the thing that connects us is this universal feeling that the American dream, I think, represents, which is that if you work hard, you can do anything. if you just have a shot, if you if you put all of your perseverance, your innovation, if you are able to just have a shot, you can you can do whatever you want to accomplish. And and I think that that has no longer been um feasible for a lot of people in America and they feel like no matter how hard they work, it's out of reach. And that's how I felt. I felt that way when I was working in news. I I was extending in my career, getting my raises. is I had a solid job and a stable salary, but I felt like I was never any closer to having my dream of buying a home or starting a family and slowing down and wondering what life is all about. And um and Bitcoin changed that for me. And despite all this price volatility, I feel like it made me aware of the possibility of us coming together on something where again the rules are fair. And you would probably agree with this. If if we're all playing in this game of life, but the rules are rigged to to give an advantage to some people, you're not happy for the winners. You kind of resent them and you look to them and you think, well, you wouldn't have won if the system was fair. And I think that we need a more level playing field where more people have an opportunity to play a fair game. And it's not going to be equal outcome, but it'll be a more fair, accessible system of opportunities for everyone. >> Bill, what about you? I saw you on CNBC yesterday having a field day with these people. You You were enjoying yourself as they threw all these dumb ideas at you. >> I was trying. Um, so everyone in this room was everyone in the world is born into a system of capital governance that they did not choose. And so for me, opting into Bitcoin was a pretty cool thing. A new technology that really didn't exist until 15 years ago and was not even possible. And so today it is possible. Um, and so opting into that system has been has been cool for me. You know, from a active fund management perspective, outperforming the market is a very hard thing to do. And you have to take active risks that other people don't take if you want to have a chance at doing that. And so when I look around at all the opportunities that you could choose to invest in over the long term, uh, that give yourself a reasonable chance at outperforming the overall market, Bitcoin is that choice for me. um among a handful of other things obviously we do but that's a big part of it and so that's how I got there um and again it just comes down to understanding fundamentally the wise why why do you own Bitcoin well it's a better system of capital governance people will eventually realize that just as they have for the past 15 years they'll continue to come around to it will continue to be volatile once the volatility is gone there won't be any opportunity and so um we're in it for the long term >> well when you think of the market structure um I think that the critics would point to a bunch of data points, right? They'll say, "Oh, hash rate is down 40%." Or they'll point and say, "Uh, oh, you can't buy a coffee with a Bitcoin, right? All these kind of components that people have been saying for for years and years." When you're talking to other fund managers or institutions, what are you hearing there? Has there been any movement in their kind of acceptance of Bitcoin or or what are those conversations like behind closed doors? Man, I think one of the dirty secrets is I think a lot of fund managers that can't own it in their own funds, there still are legal challenges to owning in a mutual fund, by the way, but they own it personally. A lot of fund managers just own it personally. They can't do it in funds. So, I think that's important for people to be aware of. Natalie, what about you and your conversations? You go around the world, you interview all these people. Uh it seems like there is this like persistent optimism from the Bitcoiners, but what about the people who don't hold Bitcoin? Is it still a belief like this thing's going to zero and this is just a a Ponzi scheme and uh we're all idiots in this room or is there now at least a belief of like okay maybe it's not worth you know a million dollars but it's also not going to go to zero. >> I try to always focus on how much progress we've made but there's still such a huge education gap there really is um it's one of the reasons why I wrote the book Bitcoin is for everyone. I just wanted something that spoke to the average like mainstream audience member. And those are really the people I used to to speak to when I worked on camera in news. It was like, you know, they're probably at home at 5:00 or 6:00 at night. They've just come home from a really crazy day and I have to inform them and I have about 2 minutes to do it. And I and the most important thing I need to do is make them feel something. Which is why I always try to go back to that human experience angle of Bitcoin. And that's what I touched on so deeply in the book because um at the end of the day, this isn't just about numbers on on spreadsheets or balance sheets. For me, this is like truly about freedom and sovereignty and taking back control over your future, which so many people again just feel like they're treading water, they're drowning, and we're all in this system. And so when very few people are at the top and own everything and it's very, you know, lopsided in terms of equity, that's a system that's very unstable for everyone. You know, if if you're part of the 1%, yay, lucky you. But you're dealing with 99% of people who feel so angry and upset and they're pulling apart and we're having all sorts of civil issues that I think are symptoms of this deeper problem that people just don't feel empowered. So, I want to empower people. I think that that's the message. If we keep educating, and it's going to be a slow burn, but if we just keep doing our part to educate people about how this system works, what money is, why it doesn't hold value, why it's designed to, you know, destroy your purchasing power, and what solutions exist, obviously, Bitcoin, I think, being the best one, then I think slowly but surely we're going to, you know, get the world on the Bitcoin standard. Russ, maybe we'll finish with you talking about uh you've already mentioned very diverse uh audiences, your kids, professional athletes. Maybe those those two groups are more similar than we would like to think, but talk a little bit about, you know, when you're talking about Bitcoin, there is a way to talk about this that resonates with a person, right? It's not a it's not like 2 plus 2 equals four. It doesn't matter who you are in the world. Bitcoin is kind of different things to different people. How do you approach, you know, these conversations, especially when it's not people from a financial standpoint? Because I I think the financial conversation is, you know, very clear. Hey, the number does this thing and it goes up for these reasons, whatever. When you're talking to it about sovereignty and some of these more, you know, kind of uh uh qualitative aspects is a different conversation. >> Yeah, really good question. Um, I guess I would frame it this way. I've been a team captain on every team I've been on. I >> a little bit. I've uh and what that means is that I've been elected by my peers to represent them on the field. And when I think about the relationships, the opportunities that I've had to share Bitcoin, a lot of it's come from having that platform is that they can confide in me and they trust me. They know that I've done all the diligence that I possibly can to provide them the information uh to have the right type of vantage point when it comes to Bitcoin. And I think that's where it starts is before you start talking about Bitcoin and all its qualities, right? Can that person trust you? Can they trust and know that you have, you know, their best that you have their their best um what's the word I'm looking for? You have their best financial health in mind, right? Their best economic health in mind. You care about them as a person, you know? So when I've uh talked about Bitcoin, a lot a lot of it's kind of been that you know funny quick story and I think this is important for uh for you know people like you is I've been trying to convince some of my family members to get into Bitcoin and my uncle finally calls me and he's like hey I finally got into Bitcoin. Oh cool. Do you need a wallet? Whatever. He said yeah I well I bought a Bitcoin treasury company. I thought it was an important lesson that as much as I may want to advocate for Bitcoin and I want to talk about why Bitcoin matters for for some people having exposure to Bitcoin is just going to make a lot more sense, you know. So, um I think that's just a reality that we should all, you know, deal with is just meet people where they are. >> Makes sense to me. Bitcoiners versus the world. I'll take us all day long, my friends. All day. >> Thank you guys very much. >> Thank you.

Natalie Brunell, Russell Okung, and Bill Miller IV join this panel recorded live at Bitcoin Investor Week in New York. In this conversation, we discuss bitcoin as a long-term adoption story, why it represents sovereignty and “freedom money” for many, and how athletes and traditional finance investors think about allocating to it. We also cover common criticisms, the education gap, bitcoin vs. gold, and why the panel believes we’re still early in a multi-decade trend. 🔊 Audio Podcast Listen to The Pomp Podcast on the audio platform of your choice: http://pomppodcast.com 🖥️ From The Desk of Anthony Pompliano Check out my NEW show for daily bite-sized breakdowns of the biggest stories in finance, technology, and politics: http://pompdesk.com/ 📧 Newsletter Pomp writes a daily letter to over 270,000+ investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy-to-understand language while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at: https://pomp.substack.com/ 👉 Follow Pomp on Social Media: Twitter: https://twitter.com/APompliano Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pompglobal/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthonypompliano/ 🤝 Podcast Sponsors Simple Mining makes Bitcoin mining simple and accessible for everyone. We offer a premium white glove hosting service, helping you maximize the profitability of Bitcoin mining. For more information on Simple Mining or to get started mining Bitcoin, visit https://www.simplemining.io/pomp Arch Public is an agentic trading platform that automates the buying and selling of your preferred crypto strategies. Sign up today at https://www.archpublic.com and start your automated trading strategy for free. No catch. No hidden fees. Just smarter trading. ⏰ TimeStamps: 0:00 – Intro: Bitcoiners vs the World 1:00 – Russell Okung on taking his salary in bitcoin 4:44 – Natalie Brunell’s bitcoin journey 7:25 – A traditional finance view on bitcoin 9:08 – The bitcoin mindset & sovereignty 14:45 – Bitcoin, hope, & the American dream 17:28 – What institutions think about bitcoin 19:32 – How to talk about bitcoin to different audiences #Bitcoin #AnthonyPompliano #Pomp