Dealer SNAPS When Buyer Checks Comps (Is He Right?)

Don't talk to me about comms. I'll price my cards the way I want to price them. That's at least what one dealer thought this last week on a clip that went absolutely viral on the internet. Was he right or was he wrong? We're going to talk about that today, plus a whole bunch of other unhinged behavior from the internet. Let's get into it on Cards on the Table. [music] [music] >> [music] >> Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Cards on the Table. My name is Tyler Nethercott, better known as Teapot, and I am in the captain's chair today. Jeff's somewhere skiing in a mountain and enjoying time away. So, we've got Lechner back sitting in my usual spot, and we've got Parker Pike from my data team. He's the data mind behind Market Movers, and we're going to get some of his opinions today. And we have some unhinged behavior uh from the internet this week. It never lets us down. But this week in particular had some well, we'll just call it extreme dynamics. And we've got several mailbag topics, but I want to start out with our main topic. And this is a scenario where we have a dealer. This was an exchange on Instagram that was posted by uh Jade Jabber. And he was at a show asked this dealer, "Hey, I'm interested in some of your cards. Is it all right if I set my camera up and we, you know, negotiate a little bit?" The guy said, "Sure." So, he set his camera up on the tripod and basically the way that this played out was he starts asking the dealer like for pricing and the guy's like, "Don't talk to me about comps. Don't don't come at me talking about comps. I'm not going to be at comps. I'm not going to do that." So, he's like, "Okay, well, I just I guess what I'm trying to do is get to value, like value that we can agree on, and then maybe I can pull out some of my cards and you can tell me what you think they're worth." And the exchange overall had one side from Jade where he seemed very collected, calm, composed. He was trying to be respect respectful and overall it just seemed like he was like, >> "Well, how do I buy cards from you? You seem like you don't actually want to sell me anything." >> From the other side, it was a totally different story. This guy seemed a little salty. He seemed kind of determined to not want to sell anything, and he definitely didn't want to be talked to about comps. So, that was the exchange. People can go watch that full clip on Jade Jabber's Instagram account. Um, but overall, this is a dynamic that's not new. I think if you've been to a few card shows, you've seen this. I walked up to a dealer at the National one time who had a sign out. In some ways, I respected the transparency that said, "Don't use the card word comps or I won't sell you a card." That was a sign posted on his [laughter] but >> at least he's being open and honest. And so reactions were kind of mixed on this, maybe somewhat surprisingly with I think most people siding with Jade, but other people being like, "Hey, it's his prerogative. They're his cards." Like, "You shouldn't have been so pushy with him." So, I want to know what you guys think about this. Was the dealer's behavior acceptable and understandable in a card show in 2026? >> When would it not be acceptable to talk about comps with specific cards? And do you think these types of dealers are kind of hurting the hobby, giving the hobby a bad rap or giving card show attendees a bad experience? I'll start with you, Lner. >> Yeah, it's an interesting video. I mean, I think it's a short clip. There's a lot contextually that we don't really know, right? I mean, we for for all we know, he could have had people coming up to his table all day long saying, "I'll give you 60%. I'll give you 50% of this." And like I could understand. Yeah. As a dealer, that could be as a or even just as a vendor at a show, like that could be frustrating. people coming up and offering you $200 on your $400 card. So, like we we don't know what led up to this. Um I, you know, I try to give everybody the benefit of the doubt to some extent. Again, it's a short clip on the internet that we don't have a lot of context for really. Um I could also see, you know, he did mention guys like Otani and Jordan and Kobe and like the the goats in the sport. Um, there's a there's a common insert from 2023 of Otani, the all aces that was I had that card a year and a half ago. It was $10 when I sold it. That card is now 150 plus and in graded it's even more. So, it's like I understand if you're talking about Otani cards, it's like >> yesterday's price is not today's price. Like that kind of that kind of mindset. So, um I can kind of see both sides of it. I mean, I at at the end of the day, like >> let's just I do think even if you're frustrated, like let's just be polite. Let's be nice. [laughter] That's the that's the easy thing. It's like even if you they're your cards. You can sell them for your you can ask however much you want to ask, but let's be polite. Let's be nice to each other. Let's just be kind. Yeah. >> Let's just be kind. So, >> yeah. Parker, do you see both sides of the story here or you kind of lean in one direction? >> I mean, I lean in one direction. I mean, yes, it's his, you know, it's his right to ask for what he wants to. It's his right to choose at what point he sells at, but I mean, you're just not going to get any repeat customers. You're not going to develop relationships. You're not going to, you know, all the kind of extra things that you get from, you know, transacting, you know, cards in this hobby. Like, you're not going to get any of that with that attitude. And plus, you're just not even going to sell your cards. Um, no one's going to pay over comps when they know what the comps are. Um, unless you're unless you've got, you know, like what lecture said, some of the all aces or like Otani's 2013 promos that are going crazy right now, like 5xing or whatever, >> which is you never see that. So, can I pose a question? Unless you have one of those cards, >> let me pose a question to you. If no one is going to pay over comps, how do cards increase in value? At some point, somebody has to pay over what the last comp was. Otherwise, cards would not go up in value. >> True. Yeah, that is true. If you're gonna usually Well, if you're going to pay more, if you're going to go over the comp, it's usually like for a reason like people are kind of expecting them to to be going up in value. >> Yeah, that's a good point. >> So, I had a chance to talk to Jade a little bit earlier this week. I had a call with him a couple of days ago just to get his perspective on this because I I had a strong visceral reaction initially. It was just like gosh, come on, man. Like about this dealer. Like it's so exasperating when you run into somebody like that. And and you can see his side of the story. I can I get it. In fact, I'm certain I'm 100% certain that up until that point, unless the show had just started, >> that this guy probably had experienced what you described, Lechner, which is people walking up going, "Hey, what's your lowest on this?" slam their Zion case down on top of the showcase, you know, spill your coffee that's somehow behind you. >> And you mentioned like, I'm not going to bring four cards out, you know, >> there's so much bad behavior on the buy side at shows. It's so offputting that and it's it's a certain demographic. It's a lot of young hustlers and they come up and it's it's an action game. They're trying to get their 5 to 10% margin at the show on premise, either directly at the show or at trade night later that night or something. And they're they need to work on their etiquette. They need to learn learn basic respect and manners. Especially for what I would say like are your elders. Not to say that guy's like super old, but if you're like walking up just basic human respect is something that I place a lot of emphasis on. So if you're coming up it's what's your best on this? What's your best? Like they don't even make eye contact. They just come up. Oh, they see your card and like you said it's listed at 400 bucks and they're like would you take 180 on this? You're like what are you talking about? But at the same time, he felt like he could have different comp value. Can we try to agree on value? >> I feel like that's the model behavior. What Jade des I thought he actually kind of was was like a textbook demonstration overactful when the dealer started kind of going at him like a little bit. He didn't change his tone didn't change at all. He's just level setting with him. And I think that's why >> if most people when they watch a clip like that, their initial reaction is going to be to the to the emotion of the of the exchange even more than just like the the facts of the exchange. They're going to look at how did these two people behave. And one of them came across as very cool, calm, cool, and composed. The other one came off as very off-putting. Um part of what stood out to me is, you know, like I said, he didn't say like I need room on this or what's your lowest or anything along those lines. You could see him trying to figure out how to buy the cards. There was a specific line where the dealer said or where Jade said to him, "Is is that because you think you're over comp?" Like the guy was like, "Well, I'm at this price or I don't want to look at comps." And he's like, "Do you think it's because that?" And the guy just says, "No, it's because I just don't care." And my response, I mean, in hindsight, at least to those dealers, and honestly, I would love if you are a dealer who has this attitude and is willing to come forward and talk to me, you can reach me at Tapots PC on Instagram or uh other places, you can email me. I would genuinely like to hear the perspective of how a dealer like that is successful and how do they buy cards if they don't look at comps? >> It's probably though I don't think he goes to show >> what are you valuing them on. You know what I mean? Like you you have to kind of look at that and and so valued it on what he paid. >> He just told him I said he said I'm into it for this amount. he starts talking about it >> and negotiation is count. >> Nobody cares if you made a mistake and you overpaid for a card last week or last year and you're into it when and clinging to that s cost fallacy. Nobody really cares. So my my favorite thing is when I walk up to a dealer booth at a show and they have prices listed massively over comp and massively over what I could smash the bin for right now on eBay or on Fanatics Collect. 200 bucks and they're at 400. To me that says most of the time >> I don't think that's ignorance. I think it's trying to like pull one over on new people who are don't know what the card is worth and they're trying to like maximize their profit. >> So, there's dynamics that go both ways. I I kind of agree with um everything that Neo said in a video where he talked about comps. It was less about that video and more about well, when do comps matter and when do they not? And he pointed out very liquid cards. It's comps. If you have a prism base card, a prism silver, whatever, that's comps. Then he had some middle scenarios. And then he had rare cards that are like one of one. And people will go, "Well, last comp was X, but last comp was 18 months ago or 12 months ago or six." And he's like, >> "Screw the comps. I don't care." You know that this is my card. Do you want it or not? So, I did, last thing I'll say, I did a video on card show etiquette specifically. I did it at Culture Collision on the Market Movers channel. That video is called the ultimate guide to card shows tips and tricks. It's from last year, and I interviewed dealers and card show attendees to ask them what's most important from the other side of the table. So, it's a really good video etiquette if you're curious. Even if you're a card show veteran, >> I think it's a useful video to go watch just to help improve your relationships and your experience overall and and a better environment. So, spicy topic. Let us know down in the comments below. Who do you agree with? Go watch the full clip on Instagram to get more on that. >> And speaking of spicy, Arena Club, we've got our Arena Club packs and we did some Emerald packs this week. So, we're going to take a look at those. Parker, which of the Emerald packs did you uh choose to rip? I chose to you with basketball. >> Okay. All right. We're heading toward the playoffs. Let's see what you got. >> That's a fan favorite. >> An emotion intense. >> Anytime you hit an MJ MJ, >> I think that was one of like the >> whatever like the third tier, not like the cuz you know how they have like the chase tier and they have the one. >> Yeah. >> Or was like the third tier. It was like 2% of the pack. >> That's a pretty good card. I like it. >> That's a good card. Those are those are very popular. I think those have been rising, too. What'd you go after, Lner? >> Much to your surprise, I went baseball. >> Okay. Yeah. Shocker. [laughter] Shocker. Lechner is a big baseball guy. You guys know that. >> Oh, hey. >> Oh, nice. Another go. >> 72 tops. Say, "Hey, kid." >> And an eight, too. Listen. Hey, Willie May and an eight. Never mad about that. Nice card. >> That's legit. All right. I went off the wall and went Pokemon. I've been on a little bit of a Pokemon camp. A little bit into it. >> I like it. I respect. >> I went Pokemon. They've been hot and I I think some of the cards are cool. Let's go. >> All right. Another goat. Hey, >> one of the OGs, the Squirtle on the beach in a PSA 10. Actually, I really like that card. I like that one. So, I've been after that one. I I'll take it. I'll take a Squirtle. And if you want to rip your own Arena Club slab packs, Emerald, Ruby, otherwise, all different price points from low all the way up to very high-end, you can use promo code SCI at checkout to save 20% off your first ever Arena Club slab pack. And hey, if you don't like the cards you get, too, they always offer an immediate 90% buyback on the value of the card. So, go check out Arena Club. Download the app or go to arena club.com. Use promo code sei at checkout. Uh, we're on to our mailbags and we've got some really good topics here in the first mailbag. More dynamic interesting interneting I think [clears throat] internet interesting spicy behavior. >> Uh, whatn not seller yoj Dylan has gone viral in recent days after some clips were shared of him destroying cards during live streams. This is of course nothing new to the internet and to the live selling space. Um first viral clip which appeared uh to be somewhat old was him slamming his desk and throwing a Steph Curry one inone Prismania plate metal card onto the table. He was claiming during the stream while running his flash auction, his sudden death auction, that the card was worth $4,000. And thankfully, nobody was fell victim to that because it only sold for $700, which triggered rage and slamming the card down onto the table and it popping out of the holder. And it turns out that card is worth about $700. He got it confused ostensibly with the regular Prism. I don't think he understand or he was trying to do >> he was like saying he's like oh the prism sold for 4,000. So he understood the difference and he and when he threw the card it came out of the the one touch and he's like oh it's a plate guys. >> Yeah. So he he flipped out and then some other clips surfaced showing him >> there was a card that he sold. It was in a slab. I don't know what kind of bare hands he's got. [laughter] He just opened the PSA slab with his hands in rage and then crumpled the card up and then proceeded to put it inside of the team bag and was like, "This is the card you're getting." >> Um, >> and then there was another clip of him cussing out his customers and it just kind of built from there. So, >> once the original clip posted, he started out he posted to his Instagram story and he pulled out the victim card. He claimed those clips were out of context and that it was for comedic entertainment. Uh he then went and said going forward I will not be any less sarcastic, engaging and fun. Apparently that's fun in his mind and uh said that he would however lighten his antics and retool his approach. And then he says he embraces being controversial, raw and real and that that was just a stepping stone in the process. Well the process took effect and he got suspended from whatn not which then prompted a very scripted apology video of sorts that went on to Instagram. All the comments are saying Chad. >> Yes. And it it very much was and he literally was reading it from his phone. It was a tough watch. Uh so here's the question. First of all, you you sell you break on a lot. Now do you ever do live selling or just breaking right now? >> Um I do both, but mostly breaking doing I started singles with cards each. >> Yeah. >> You ever freak out and slap? >> No. He probably would be sitting here if that happened. But these crashs seem to be happening more often. >> Do you think it's become too normalized? like why why are people behaving like this? Um what should whatnot and other live selling platforms do to combat this? What do you think should ultimately happen with Yojack Dylan's account? And maybe most importantly, do you buy his apology? >> Like I said, the the apology was a was a tough watch. I mean, the the first clip that we talked about, I mentioned like we don't know all the context. This one I don't know that there's any amount of context that can that can improve it or or make it a or make it better. There's really I don't I don't know how he said it was taken out of context. I don't know what level of context could save it. >> This is this is so so frustrating. Um as like you mentioned somebody who is part of the whatnot platform as part of the cards HQ breaking team myself and every other person that's on the breaking and live selling team at Cards HQ. Every single time we go live, we strive for excellence and we strive to provide a safe, fun, and entertaining environment for people to engage in card breaks or buy singles. Um, and and that's our that's our number one goal every single time that we fire up our stream. Uh, safe, fun, entertaining stream for for everybody. Um, and this the these types of incidents only harm the platform that we're all on because there could be plenty of people who don't know anything. You know, if you're just seeing this on on social media, you don't know anything about whatnot and all that. This is your first interaction with something like that. Like it's it whatnot whatnot's got to or or whatever live selling platform it is. Like it's it's absolutely unacceptable. Um, I don't think a I don't know if this is a permanent or temporary suspension, but in my opinion, the only solution would permanent ban because that is there's there's no there's no level of context where that should be acceptable or allowed. Um, I think that there also needs to be much more strict policies in place to allow people onto the app to to sell. Um, the I before I before I started this, I did some single shows on my own. Um, and I went through the process of being approved as a seller and it was about a 20-minut Zoom call there. They gave you the answers and then you were approved. So, maybe there's a maybe there's a better screening process or maybe there's um some some waiting periods or whatever it is. I I I don't know, but it's Yeah, the permanent bands I think are the only acceptable answer. >> Yeah, you're trying to grow their platform always, as any platform would be. I've logged on to so many different live selling apps, whether it's Whatnot, Fanatics, eBay Live, Loop, others, and and if you click around into enough shows, just sort of hopping from show to show, >> unfortunately, it doesn't take long to get into one where somebody's doing something crazy, it's a little it's a little off-putting. And I think that damages the whole live selling and live breaking experience collectively. And it's sort of platform agnostic, like they all kind of have this challenge that they're battling against. This guy in particular at least quoted that he's sold over a hundred thousand cards on whatnot. That was what he said in his Instagram story. So, >> does something like that come into play, Parker, when you're looking at disciplinary action if this guy's been very successful on the platform? Should it not matter? Are you the same zero tolerance as Lechner? What do you think? >> I mean, I don't know if I would be permanently banning him. Like, I think I don't know what 30 days or something like that kind of ban. I mean, you can clearly see that it's probably it that's probably not to defend him at all, but like it's pro all this whole thing has probably made him a little bit more aware. Yeah. >> About not crashing out on his stream. >> Um I mean, at the end of the day, it is people you choose who you buy from. Like, no one's forcing anyone to go buy from him. >> Yeah. >> Um I don't really think it's I don't think it's necessary a bad look on whatnot. every person on whatnot did that then yeah but I think whatnot's they've done a great job building up their whole platform and >> the platform as a whole is tremendous which is why it's frustrating >> by a lot of good sellers >> absolutely absolutely >> I I wouldn't I wouldn't say that he's a reflection on like whatnot >> um I think yeah ban him for a bit you know his reputation's taking a a big hit for sure you know maybe eventually let him try and build his reputation back up, you know. >> Yeah. >> Again, you don't have to buy from him. >> Yeah. He doesn't look particularly old and I will say I did a lot of dumb stuff when I was young and and nothing like that. But people go through things whether it's true or not. He cited that he struggled in the past with substance abuse and mental health and he he said that in his apology if you take him on his word on that and that he said that the cards industry and you know the hobby has really helped him out of that. I know for a fact I've met a lot of people who that's true for. And so you'd hate to see somebody slip into a regression when they're trying to maybe battle some demons and get out of that. So maybe you're right, Parker, maybe it's, you know, a a pretty significant slap on the wrist. Losing 30 days of income could be pretty impactful. Even seven days can be impactful. Um, and then maybe it's zero tolerance after that. I don't know. Overall, I would I would make it part of the onboarding as a seller interview and part of the terms of selling on a platform that there's no tolerance for this. So that if somebody does, you're just like, it's a privilege to be a part of our platform that affords you an opportunity to make >> sometimes pretty significant sums of money as a seller and you need to be on your best behavior to represent what we're trying to build here. So you don't want to deter people from being, you know, characters, entertaining. >> Yeah, there's a difference between that and smashing cards. That's kind of the that's kind of the cardinal. I think we have great personalities on our streams. You know what I mean? I think we >> can check them out at HQ shop and many others on whatnot. >> There's not crash outs. >> All right. Well, good good discussion. Um we need we like to crash out. >> Yeah, we do not need that. Please never. Uh on behalf of Carter, no. [laughter] Um mailbag 2. This one's an interesting one. We we talked about this one I think a few times now. Um, the question is, what is the Michael Jordan Kobe Bryant dual logo man dual auto one of one actually worth? It's the only one of its kind in terms of being two logo mans, two autos on card. Shark Tank entrepreneur and relatively new collector Kevin Olirri keeps calling the recent purchase a $20 million card. That's about a month to six weeks after he was calling it a $17 million card. Um, and he bought that card for a record $ 122.93 million on Heritage Auctions last August. At the time, it was the most expensive card sale of all time. Uh, and so since then, he's been flaunting it and talking about it and recently showed up with it in a 101 karat diamond chain and encased kind of like, you know, Logan Paul had done with the Pikachu illustrator. and he claims that he got the $20 million valuation from Card Ladder, which has created its own estimate of the card. It is probably safe to assume that it's worth more than what he bought it for, especially in light of that recent Pikachu Illustrator sale. Uh, but whether or not it's worth $20 million may be a whole different story. So, question here. I'll start with you this time, Parker. Do you agree? Do you think this card is worth $20 million now? Do you have anything to base that on? Uh, what would need to happen for that card to reach that value? And do you have any impressions about different platforms, whether it's card ladder, alt, or otherwise, having their own private valuations for cards? >> Well, definitely answer the first part. I have no clue if it's worth 20 million. [laughter] I mean, he paid. It's a one of one. You know, Grock, British Grock, told me that there is in fact only one dual logo man auto, MJ and Kobe. There's [clears throat] al there's more. I think it's a there's one more. >> There's one dual logo man without the auto. >> Without the auto. Yeah. So again, it is a one of one, like a true one of one. >> Um, so theoretically, we don't know what the the worth is. The the value would be the next time it goes up for sale, what someone pays for it. Um, we can theorize the value all over the place. Um, of all the cards to pick, that is probably one of the better ones you could have picked. >> Yeah, absolutely. You know, I'm not necessarily a fan of, you know, Captain What's his name? Mr. Wonderful. Mr. Yeah, Captain Wonderful. >> Captain Wonderful. >> Captain America >> wearing two watches and everything like that, you know, but he did pick a good card to put his $12 million into. I'll just put it that way. >> Yeah. Almost 13 worth. >> What do you think? Is it worth 20 million bucks? Do you What do you think of this? >> I think saying it's I don't know. I think I think I would like a different phrasing. I think if you were saying like what would you accept for this card if somebody wanted to buy it and you were saying 20 million is what you would accept like that's what you would sell it for is $20 million but to say that it's worth 20 million like based on what >> yeah based on card ladder >> bas [laughter] based on what what is card ladder based on that's the real question >> so so >> when it comes to one ones again though is this is the impossible it is >> what we get asked when we set up at card shows yes you know we'll allow people to come bring some cards to us we'll try and help them out with comps. >> Whenever we see one of ones, we always got to preface like, you know, we're taking shots in the dark here. We'll compare it to similar players of similar products. >> Yeah. >> But with this one, there's no there's nothing. >> Nothing. So, >> I mean, truthfully, we don't really know what it would be worth until it was auctioned again. Um, so or somebody just made him a fat cash offer on it. Um, that was $20 million or more than $20 million. >> The diamonds aren't worth it. >> If if if the jewelry was worth 7 million, technically I don't remember how much he said it was worth 20 million. >> It did add some value obviously but so much. >> Um look here here's what I'll say about this. As of this moment in time, Market Movers does not have a market movers value in the app. We've talked about it just about every year since we launched the app and whether or not it's a good idea or not. So I mentioned Card Ladder has their own proprietary value calculation. So they obviously show comps, but then if you click on things, they also have a card ladder value. Alt does the same thing when you use alt. The reason we haven't done it thus far is because this market is largely driven by comps. So when there is a direct comp, then you don't need a different independent value that's slightly different based on an algorithm. And um outside of that, there's just not enough logic baked into buying behavior from people typically to actually feel confident talking about, you know, whether or not this value is accurate or not. In fact, I don't know if they still do it, but Card Ladder used to publish on their dashboard like their accuracy of their value each day. Basically, from what I could tell, they would compare what their prior days card ladder value was compared to like any that re that sold that night. And it was anywhere always from like 65 to 82% accurate. That's a big margin and a big difference compared to actual values and prices. So, I don't I don't fault them for trying to do it. And one thing I will actually I will give them some credit for doing and and Card is a good app. Obviously, I'm very partial for to market movers and I know you are too, Parker, but it is a good app. The thing that I think I'll give them credit for is they've actually uh put a confidence score in for card ladder values now. So, it's like one to five or something like that. And they will actually obiscate and hide that card ladder value behind a little eyeball if it's low because they're trying to be like say, "Hey, we don't want to give people the wrong impression." So, you have to click the eyeball to see the $20 million valuation. >> Now, the real question is, does Kevin Olirri know that? Does he care? Is it just a convenient thing? If Market Movers had a Market Movers value that said that was $30 million, I have a suspicion he'd be quoting Market Movers as a $30 million card. And if Card Ladder said it was an $8 million card, now I don't think he'd be talking about Card Ladder at all. That's the slippery slope with that slippery slope is a lot of people will just trust, you know, whatever, however you came up with this estimated value. Yep. And not, you know, and so we don't want to lead people astray. >> No, you have you have to be really transparent. There's so many things that influence card values like >> Yep. We give people the data, the raw data, and try to have help them with education learn how to make, you know, we we we do that like triangulation of sorts at the national and other shows to talk through what our process would be just like if we were negotiating the cards ourselves with somebody else. But um there there is a big caveat and this dubtales back into that video Neo did and others that when it's a one of one, there are no direct comps and there won't be. It is the card. So maybe it is worth $20 million. Maybe somebody else wants it. Maybe it's money laundering like people keep saying. I don't know. I'm not I'm not saying anything. >> Kevin Ol doesn't care about your comps. >> But um but yeah, the card could be worth he could Kevin could say it's worth 20 or 30 or even hundred million dollars and the talking heads on the media are just going to go, "Wow, what a great good job." You know, you know MSNBC was on MSNBC and Fox and Friends and they're just like, you know, wow, good job, Kevin. You're so smart. Uh it was a good purchase hopefully long term for him. So, uh, anyway, no shade at, uh, at a at a competitive app. Uh, I think it's just an interesting dynamic and we'll see if it ever does actually sell again what it goes for. Last topic of the day. Um, two major cards were recently hit from a retail products, causing conversation around whether those configurations should have those big chases at all. The first one is Kanipple's 2025 Topps chrome superfrator, one of one that was pulled from a blaster box uh, last month or value box, I believe, as Topps calls them. And then a show Otani one of one all aces was pulled from a super box. So there's been feedback from the community that has shown frustration that these massive sixf figureure cards are in retail configurations rather than hobby. Others argue that retail configurations need to have value to be worth it and should include these Chase cards. So questions for you guys. I'll start with you again Parker. Um do you think retail cards should have these big retail formats should have these big chases? Is there a cuto off for how many you'd like to see in them? Should it just be totally random? What do you think about the mix here? >> I think there's there should be some retail chases. So like um what is it? Kab I think Kaboom. You could get Kabooms out of like Absolute Blasters I think at >> Yeah, I think so. At one point maybe >> I think it was 2019 I want to say for football at least there were like two different kabooms. There was one hobby, one retail. Um yeah to find a one of it's like if someone if if I had like just say shelled out I mean what are the the hobby boxes going for right now? Yeah, 800 bucks. >> They're a lot like 800 bucks something like that >> like and then I see oh someone's pulling this out of a $30 blaster I would feel kind of like hang on like that's that's one of the reasons I would pay the premium for a hobby box >> is the chance to get these one of ones. Um, of course it's like I I'm I'm excited for the people that pull them out of a retail product that that's awesome. But I'm just thinking from like who feels cheated in this? It would have to be the people buying hobby boxes to see, oh my gosh, like why am I why am I buying these hobby boxes if I can just get these out of retail? Like >> that's probably who feels cheated in this scenario. >> Um, >> yeah. >> I don't know. What's your take? >> Okay. Well, I what I will say to you is I haven't seen anybody talking about conveniently how uh these weren't hit by breakers. >> Were these loaded boxes for kids? >> That's exactly what I was going to say. I was like, this story makes me feel like we can't make anybody happy no matter what happens. It's like [laughter] cuz the one thing I always hear is, "Oh, breakers always get all you hit those cards." >> And then it's like now we're not happy that somebody hit it from a retail box. Like we're just never going to get It's It sounds to me like people just >> If I didn't hit it, I'm not happy. >> Exactly. People are jealous that they're not the ones that hit it. Um, again, I'm fine with it. I I don't have an issue with this. Uh, somebody went to their local store and bought a box and and pulled a pulled a huge card. And that's what we all want to do. Everybody wants to do that. Everybody wants to buy a box, whether it's a hobby box, a retail box. Like, we all buy whatever configuration of wax that we buy with the hope, right, that we're going to hit something big. So, um, I don't have any issues with this. Again, I think it's one of those things you're you're never going to be able to make everybody happy. It's either they're going to be complaining that breakers are getting all the hits or somebody pulled it from a blaster at Walmart. It's >> what I've seen over the years. I I came back to the hobby in 2019 and I've studied a lot of different box formats basically going back all years, but especially like starting in the Panini era and all the way since then. And you know, obviously we know packods have gotten longer and longer over the years, but whether it's Panini, Tops, Upper Deck, Leaf, any of them, they're always like tinkering with the the the mix of the types of hits and cards that you can hit in them. When COVID hit and then all the retail boxes disappeared >> in 2018 retail product, you could get really good stuff from retail >> from Panini. And then in 2019, you could still get some pretty good stuff. And there were like Prism exclusives in each of the formats. And then all a sudden it was like 2021 like you couldn't get anything. Like if you bought a 2021 select basketball box, the best card you could get was like non serialnumbered and some like you know supposedly rare parallel. So they went to the other end of the spectrum where you the value proposition was so bad that little Johnny every time his parents were buying the then marked up to $35 a box select you know blaster they were getting smoked. There was just no value out of it whatsoever to be had. That's the other end of the spectrum. This is I have to be careful because we've talked about this a long time ago and and and people will get real cranky on either side about this. I I think there needs to be the right mix. I don't know what the right mix is. I don't know if the product chase should be in a retail format like for the key key card. And I the only reason I say that is to help like control the secondary the scalpers. If you put those big chases into the cards, a lot of times that means it's a target for the sculpers to go after. And those blaster boxes for top scrum basketball do sell for more on the secondary market than at the shelves. If you know that there's a retail exclusive coniple one of one that the secondary market can then acknowledge also is just though it's a one of one, it's not as desirable. Or maybe you just make them non-numbered but ultra rare like retail case hits that you you got to have value there. You got to be able to do it. But like like you're saying too, Parker, if you're paying up and you have that budget to buy into these hobby boxes and the cards aren't even in there, you feel a little bit like you're getting cooked >> too. So I I love the story. I love it when people who are just trying to part have fun in the hobby and get get a little collection going hit monster cards fun, you know, you're just you're not you're not like, "Oh my gosh, >> I just want people to be part of my have access to that real sealed wax if they want it at all levels." So that's what I think the manufacturers struggle with no matter what. and and you're kind of dinged if you do, dinged if you don't sometimes. So, great story. Very happy for them. I think this is for people much smarter than me when it comes to the right mix and pack odds and distribution. But, um, I would guess interesting topic. >> I might be wrong on this. I would guess that if you did the math and broke down the pack odds that you would have to spend a lot more in retail to get one of those types of >> things. And a lot of times they make the pack odds a lot longer like in retail per pack or something. So, >> Right. So, >> it's got to be like like being like the Fed and controlling interest rates. I mean, I don't [laughter] know how they do it. >> Oh, boy. >> And they b they try and balance, you know, the how these get dispersed, but >> uh we're going to start talking interest rates and retail rips. This that's another topic. You can go on the Jeff Wilson podcast to talk about that. And uh Jeff will be back soon, I think. Uh I'm not exactly sure when he's coming back, but I always enjoy sitting in this chair and I've enjoyed having both of you here to talk about these topics with me. Let us know. Sound off in the comments all your hot takes and opinions. And until next time, happy investing, keep on collecting, and make sure to have fun. [music]

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